Naval ignorance

[AndyHall]

They liked French models, too. British naval architecture is like British cuisine -- it serves the purpose, but that's about all that can be said for it.

 

[diane]

Seriously, Virgina Mayo? Terrible casting.

Gregory Peck? I really liked that movie, too, even though I thought Peck was not quite Hornblower! Anyway, after seeing him in Moby Dick, it was hard to get Ahab out of your mind. But, I will say Ioan Gruffud was actually pretty good in the newer versions.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Agreed RE Peck and Mayo. Mayo was way too "girly" to be Lady Barbara, and the casting director was obviously thinking more about an Errol Flynn movie than about a proper Hornblower characterization. The guy playing Mr. Bush also constantly makes me wince. But the movie's fun (even if there's no bloody way that any number of sailing ships of the line are going to destroy a French stone fort)...

 

[rebelatsea]

Apologies Ladies and Gents, I though I had said our time frame , but I left it out. When you started on about Napoleonics I thought I'd gone nuts.

 

[AndyHall]

Sorry, John. We can sometimes get distra -- ooh! A shiny thing over there!

 

[diane]

Sorry! I have the attention span of one of these:

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

And my fascination with things naval is not exclusively restricted to the Civil War (though I do keep returning to that). Just finished reading Chapelle's History of the American Sailing Navy, something that had been on my "to-read" list for an embarassingly long time.

 

[TerryB]

Gregory Peck? I really liked that movie, too, even though I thought Peck was not quite Hornblower! Anyway, after seeing him in Moby Dick, it was hard to get Ahab out of your mind. But, I will say Ioan Gruffud was actually pretty good in the newer versions.

Moby Dick, the original was fantastic. Hated the Patrick Stewart version.

 

[dlofting]

In one of the Aubrey-Maturin novels (I can't recall which) Jack is a on a frigate (as a passenger, not captain) that engages the Constitution and is soundly beaten. Jack ends up a prisoner in Boston, I think. O'Brien really likes the American frigates.

 

[rebelatsea]

Sorry, John. We can sometimes get distra -- ooh! A shiny thing over there!

 

[rebelatsea]

And my fascination with things naval is not exclusively restricted to the Civil War (though I do keep returning to that). Just finished reading Chapelle's History of the American Sailing Navy, something that had been on my "to-read" list for an embarassingly long time.

Nor me Andy ,I think you would be very interested in some of the stuff on my shelves.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

So am just curious? What is the verdict on Hornblower, the books? Dad loved them, read the things to tatters- it was just a standing thing in our house, if you saw any at a yard sale, pick it up because he'd have already destroyed a copy. He was very good on the British Navy, so probably did know what might have been silly. Am asking because I've always meant to get around to reading them.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

The Hornblower books are classics. They're not perfect, but point me to something that is... C.S. Forester didn't invent historical fiction, but he may have been one of the pioneers in putting his entirely fictional character right in the middle of actual historical events in a rather-believable way. It's my understanding that part of the inspiration was reading old Naval Chronicle letters (basically a periodical that published after-action reports and correspondence about naval affairs) and imagining what sort of person was writing them. That combined with a trip to Central America (the Gulf of Fonseca, the setting of a good deal of the action in the first Hornblower book, is a real place, which set the tone-- I don't think there are any completely fictional locations in the entire series, other than an imaginary chateau here or a manor house there-- ) and some other influences, and Hornblower was born.

The character's name was supposed to evoke both heroism and the ridiculous. (The character even muses about that on occasion, coming close to breaking the 'fourth wall,' to use a theater term.) Forester intentionally made him different from himself, notably including mathematical talents and a complete lack of a musical ear because he wondered what it would be like to have those characteristics.

Forester often found Hornblower difficult to write, and even developed a bit of antipathy towards his character at times, though some story ideas he had just absolutely demanded that Hornblower be involved. I think he made his peace with Horatio toward the end of his life, and was in the middle of another Hornblower novel when he died (the completed portion and a brief synopsis of how it would have ended were published as Hornblower During the Crisis).

Forester wrote a lot of other stuff, and good stuff too-- he wrote The African Queen, which was made into the famous Humphrey Bogart-Katherine Hepburn movie, for instance-- but Hornblower remains a perennial favorite.

 

[DaveBrt]

The Hornblower books are classics. They're not perfect, but point me to something that is... C.S. Forester didn't invent historical fiction, but he may have been one of the pioneers in putting his entirely fictional character right in the middle of actual historical events in a rather-believable way. It's my understanding that part of the inspiration was reading old Naval Chronicle letters (basically a periodical that published after-action reports and correspondence about naval affairs) and imagining what sort of person was writing them. That combined with a trip to Central America (the Gulf of Fonseca, the setting of a good deal of the action in the first Hornblower book, is a real place, which set the tone-- I don't think there are any completely fictional locations in the entire series, other than an imaginary chateau here or a manor house there-- ) and some other influences, and Hornblower was born.

The character's name was supposed to evoke both heroism and the ridiculous. (The character even muses about that on occasion, coming close to breaking the 'fourth wall,' to use a theater term.) Forester intentionally made him different from himself, notably including mathematical talents and a complete lack of a musical ear because he wondered what it would be like to have those characteristics.

Forester often found Hornblower difficult to write, and even developed a bit of antipathy towards his character at times, though some story ideas he had just absolutely demanded that Hornblower be involved. I think he made his peace with Horatio toward the end of his life, and was in the middle of another Hornblower novel when he died (the completed portion and a brief synopsis of how it would have ended were published as Hornblower During the Crisis).

Forester wrote a lot of other stuff, and good stuff too-- he wrote The African Queen, which was made into the famous Humphrey Bogart-Katherine Hepburn movie, for instance-- but Hornblower remains a perennial favorite.

My 7th grade Texas History teacher had the complete set of Hornblower books on a cabinet in the front of his classroom. He offered to let any of us borrow the books, if we were interested. I checked out the first one that day and read them all as fast as I could. He then loaned me "The Fleet That Had To Die" and I was hooked -- from that time on, I was certain I wanted to be a Navy officer, sail ships, command sailors, go strange places and do big things. Many years later, I retired after 25 years as a Navy officer -- all because of Hornblower.

 

[rebelatsea]

It's a pity Forrester didn't write for the "ironclad" age, We might have been spared the c---p I was complaining about !

 

[ole]

My 7th grade Texas History teacher had the complete set of Hornblower books on a cabinet in the front of his classroom. He offered to let any of us borrow the books, if we were interested. I checked out the first one that day and read them all as fast as I could. He then loaned me "The Fleet That Had To Die" and I was hooked -- from that time on, I was certain I wanted to be a Navy officer, sail ships, command sailors, go strange places and do big things. Many years later, I retired after 25 years as a Navy officer -- all because of Hornblower.

Dave: Would you re-post your site in the U of CW forum. It's a learning tool and really ought to be there.

 

[DaveBrt]

Dave: Would you re-post your site in the U of CW forum. It's a learning tool and really ought to be there.

Done -- thanks for the suggestion.

 

[ole]

Done -- thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks. Winter is coming and I will have time to look at all this stuff. That it is there means that when the board gets boring, I can go look at hour long programs, and find them on U of ACW.

 

[Carronade]

In one of the Aubrey-Maturin novels (I can't recall which) Jack is a on a frigate (as a passenger, not captain) that engages the Constitution and is soundly beaten. Jack ends up a prisoner in Boston, I think. O'Brien really likes the American frigates.

I don't recall the title either, but they were on the Java when she was defeated, then taken to Boston as you say, and then Aubrey found some way to be on the Shannon when she fought and beat the Chesapeake.

I appreciate using history as a backdrop for fiction, but I don't care for writers just putting their characters in place of historic persons. I remember thinking that O'Brien had written a great story in the orginal M&C and being a bit disappointed to learn that it was mostly Cochrane's exploits.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I've read around a few others in the genre, like the O'Brien stories, Alexander Kent's Richard Bolitho, and so on, but the ones that repeatedly draw me back are Forester and Hornblower.