Musket ID help

[Mmm33732]

So I have a musket from the civil war that belonged to my great great grandfather. It's in very bad condition but I would like to know what it is. Any9ne able to ID the manufacturer/model?

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy

 

[mofederal]

Hello and welcome to the talk forum from Southeast Missouri. I think that this is a Springfield musket, but it is hard to tell. It looks like the stock was cut down. I don't want to guess otherwise, as it will only be that a wild guess. Enjoy your research adventure.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

This musket is either a Model 1863 or Model 1864 rifle-musket. Unfortunately there isn't enough of it left for me to tell which.
Originally this would have been a full stock rifle-musket with a 40 inch barrel with a .58 caliber bore that was rifled with 3 broad lands and grooves.
It was been "sporterized" after the Civil War for use as a market gun. I would wager that in addition to the cutting of the stock and barrel, the bore has also been rebored smooth.

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome to the forum, from South Florida

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome From THE Heart Of Dixie. I believe its an 1863 but with the condition? But if belonged to my GG Grandfather it would be a beautiful piece.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Grayrock Volunteer is correct.
J.

 

[originalrebelyell]

1863 or 1864 Springfield post war cut down made into a shot gun. Neat old gun good you have the history on it. Put a little oil on it. It looks awefully dry.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Hello @Mmm33732, welcome to CivilWarTalk.

Regardless of the condition, the fact that you have your G G Grandfather's firearm is priceless.

 

[Mmm33732]

Thanks. Everything I find on the 1863/1864 show a band type mount that goes all the way around the barrel and stock. Mine has small rings/tubes welded to the barrel that hold the end of the packing rod. Were these added and welded on as a later modification when reducing the stock foregrip length? I assumed they were in the original design looking at it, but this in by no means my area of expertise.

 

[gary]

Get coconut oil and a nickel (5 cent piece). Apply oil and scrape with nickel. You will remove the rust without harming the patina. Afterward treat with Renaissance Wax (both wood and metal).

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Thanks. Everything I find on the 1863/1864 show a band type mount that goes all the way around the barrel and stock. Mine has small rings/tubes welded to the barrel that hold the end of the packing rod. Were these added and welded on as a later modification when reducing the stock foregrip length? I assumed they were in the original design looking at it, but this in by no means my area of expertise.

When your musket was manufactured it looked like this:

The musket shown here is a US Model 1864 (sometimes referred to as a Model 1863 type 2). For additional views of this musket and an excellent write-up on the M1864, see the original listing from College Hill Arsenal here.

The Model 1864 differs from the Model 1863 in a few minor ways as listed below:
1) The upper and rear barrel bands of the M1864 are solid, where as the M1863's are "clamp-on" style with a cut at the bottom.
2) The Model 1864's barrel bands are retained by band springs, where as the M1863's are held fast by adjusting a tightening screw at the bottom of each band.
3) The Model 1864 has a simplified rear sight that eliminated the middle 300 yard sight leaf. Instead, the 500 yard leaf has a hole in it for 300 yard ranges.
4) The ramrod of the M1864 was redesigned and looks more like a P1853 ramrod head, although the example here is equipped with an earlier M1863 style ramrod.

There are a couple of other very minor changes, like the shape of the trigger bow lugs, and some of the small screws being polished bright as opposed to heat blued.

The ramrods of all US rifles and muskets after the production of the Model 1803 rifle ended were secured in a channel drilled into the forearm of the gun's stock. When your musket was shortened and the forearm cut away it deprived the gun of its ramrod channel. In order to keep a ramrod with the gun the "tubes/rings" you mentioned (the common phraseology is ramrod pipes) were soldered to the underside of the barrel.

Hope that clears some things up for you,
Garrett

 

[originalrebelyell]

The alterations shorting the stock and soldering the ram rod thimbles on the under side of the barrel, was done post war to make it a farm or hunting gun after the war. Can you get some more photo's of the stock.

 

[Mmm33732]

Wow, you guys are good. Thank you so much for all you knowledge and help.

 

[Mmm33732]

The alterations shorting the stock and soldering the ram rod thimbles on the under side of the barrel, was done post war to make it a farm or hunting gun after the war. Can you get some more photo's of the stock.

Here are a few..

 

[Patrick H]

Don't you just hate it to see how it once looked? Well...I say...WHO CARES? It's yours and I believe it is genuine and it has seen all the neglect of 150-plus years, so it's naturally going to look eaten up with rust and neglect. I'll say it again: WHO CARES? Just stabilize it to keep it from rusting further. Invite your friends over to see it. When anyone comments on how deteriorated it is, just say: "Yeah....isn't that cool?!" After that, just go on and enjoy and celebrate your family piece. You've got something that many don't have. I don't have anything comparable. I know my ancestor went home with his saber and his Colt revolver, but I haven't the foggiest notion where those items are now. So you are one or two up on me! I think you have a TREASURE, even if it's a treasure in bad condition. Who cares?!

 

[originalrebelyell]

Clean it gently, oil it and hang it up. I agree you have something from your ancestor that many do not have.