Most Underrated General

[Elennsar]

I think perhaps the term "underrated" is in need of a definition. I would use it in this thread as someone who has failed to get the credit he/she deserves, not that he/she hasn't been written about. For example, the most important people in any war are the guys and gals who find supplies for the soldiers. Without weapons, food, clothing, etc., there just isn't an army. In the ACW, they are woefully underrated, but to commit a book to one of them would be like watching paint dry.

I dunno, I'd read a book on Gorgas. But yeah, we tend to read mostly on the exciting stuff, and paperwork isn't exciting.

I think there's two things there on credit due personally: There's people whose accomplishments just plain aren't covered very well when they should be, and then are people aren't given credit for what they did.

George Greene is an example of the first. No one says Greene was a bad general, but his stand on Culp's Hill is treated as not worth attention despite being significant enough that the responsible party deserves credit - its not like how the majority of Eric's Forgotten Cavalrymen, while valiant and skilled, played a large role overshadowed by skewed (not necessarily wrong, but skewed) history. Denying by omission Greene's role is not much better than by commission.

Longstreet has been an example of the second. Longstreet as slow and disobedient does not hold up to scrutiny. But its repeated anyway.

 

[rbasin]

I dunno, I'd read a book on Gorgas. But yeah, we tend to read mostly on the exciting stuff, and paperwork isn't exciting.

I think there's two things there on credit due personally: There's people whose accomplishments just plain aren't covered very well when they should be, and then are people aren't given credit for what they did.

George Greene is an example of the first. No one says Greene was a bad general, but his stand on Culp's Hill is treated as not worth attention.

Longstreet has been an example of the second. Longstreet as slow and disobedient does not hold up to scrutiny. But its repeated anyway.

But, Longstreet's reputation was purposely attacked, while Greene's main problem was that there are just too many other commanders to talk about. Push the army and corps commanders out the conversation, and Greene would be right up there in discussions about Gettysburg.

 

[Elennsar]

But, Longstreet's reputation was purposely attacked, while Greene's main problem was that there are just too many other commanders to talk about. Push the army and corps commanders out the conversation, and Greene would be right up there in discussions about Gettysburg.

Not sure. We see Chamberlain lavishly praised for his work at the other end of the Union line, despite his rank being beneath Greene's.

Greene deserves more attention than Sedgewick, IMO.

Not that Sedgewick's accomplishments are unpraiseworthy, but Greene's stand did more to save the Union line than Sedgewick's march.

 

[rbasin]

Not sure. We see Chamberlain lavishly praised for his work at the other end of the Union line, despite his rank being beneath Greene's.

Greene deserves more attention than Sedgewick, IMO.

Could or should Greene get the same attention as Chamberlain?

 

[Elennsar]

Could or should Greene get the same attention as Chamberlain?

Should? I think so. "Could" is always harder.

 

[cash]

Speaking of beards, here's John Cleveland Robinson of Binghamton, New York.

Abner Small of the 16th Maine wrote of him, "In a much bearded army he was the hairiest general I ever saw."

It was his division that held Oak Ridge on July 1. Regiments of his division almost obliterated Iverson's brigade.

Underrated?

 

[Elennsar]

I'm inclined to say no. Robinson's overall record doesn't compare to say, Sykes, as an example of the always steady professional.

Not bad, just not enough battles for me to feel I can fairly judge his ability.

 

[rbasin]

Speaking of beards, here's John Cleveland Robinson of Binghamton, New York.

View attachment 44864

Abner Small of the 16th Maine wrote of him, "In a much bearded army he was the hairiest general I ever saw."

It was his division that held Oak Ridge on July 1. Regiments of his division almost obliterated Iverson's brigade.

Underrated?

Overbearded? Yes. Guess the idea of a beard trimmer was years away.

 

[M E Wolf]

NOTICE --

I have posted a list of all the known Generals for both Union and Confederate. They will be in the "Sticky" section for ease of finding and referring to them.



M. E. Wolf

 

[CSA Today]

The plural of y'all is all y'all. Make a note of it.

Do you know the singular of Y'all?

 

[Copperhead-mi]

Dropping the weapon may seems the person is trying to escape. Raising hands is often not seen amidst the fog of battle. Other questions?
Civil War Scholar.

As a "scholar" of the rebellion, you must surely be familiar with the International laws of war which both the Confederacy and the U.S. observed and referenced a number of times during that period:
"As soon as your enemy has laid down his arms and surrendered his person, you have no longer any right over his life."
The Law of Nations, ,Book III, Ch. I. Sec. 150., Emmerich de Vattel

 

[KeyserSoze]

Do you know the singular of Y'all?

Yooz guys?

 

[rbasin]

Do you know the singular of Y'all?

You'n

 

[CSA Today]

You'n

Around here, using either Yooz guys or You'n would get you labeled as one of those people or not our kind of people – that is if the labeler was being polite.

 

[rbasin]

Around here, using either Yooz guys or You'n would get you labeled as one of those people or not our kind of people – that is if the labeler was being polite.

Having lived in South Carolina for almost 20 years, thanks!

 

[M E Wolf]

GET BACK ON TOPIC .....

This thread isn't about vocabulary ...its about "Most Underrated General."

Unfortunately, I cannot call all of you to order by saying "Attention Battalion" and lead to a more productive path of behavior.....

M. E. Wolf
POSTED IN THE CAPACITY OF MODERATOR
August 19, 2014 9:28 p.m.

 

[Elennsar]

So while talking underrated generals . . .

How do we rate generals whose records are solid but unremarkable, and unremarked on?

Sykes was mentioned as one such.

 

[M E Wolf]

So while talking underrated generals . . .

How do we rate generals whose records are solid but unremarkable, and unremarked on?

Sykes was mentioned as one such.

It really is a hard topic due to the ambiguous nature of the question. We (in a general sense) do not have a 'standard' or what qualifies as 'most' and/or 'underrated.' So broad is the spectrum, it really could be infinity when it comes to boundaries of what qualifies.

I'm of the opinion, that generals in a general sense, rose to that rank for their qualities more than political and friendship as had been done in the beginning of the war. It wasn't a 90 days fight and it was treated as a serious threat when both sides found that this wasn't going to be a small conflict. We, in a general sense will never know how those generals who were killed prior to the close of war, would have been 'judged.'

What would have been the 'criteria' then verses present -- we (in a general sense) have the opportunity to judge from the distance and with all of the information provided, e.g. biographies, memoirs`, stories, documentation, etc. Yet, I can't help but wonder if it would be fair to do so, as we are not of their time. I am personally feeling that those of equal rank are best to judge another of their rank. Regardless, we (in a general sense) have to be reminded that there were politics in these ranks. I fear, no escape from any kind of politics is impossible then or now, even within the military.

So, it is a good question. Perhaps not able to be answered to any given satisfaction. There will be those who served in the limelight and some who served quietly without much fanfare. An analogy of modern generals -- General George S. Patton and General Omar Bradly --both successful but, totally different styles of battle leadership. So too with the Civil War Generals.

Just my thoughts and opinions.
M. E. Wolf

 

[Civil War Scholar]

One of the greatly underrated Confederate generals is Isaac Ridgeway Trimble, a son of Maryland. Apart from being a Confederate general, he had also been a railroad executive.
In 1861, when Maryland was asking herself if she should secede or not, Trimble, a secessionist to the bone, participated in efforts to stop movements of Yankee troops through Maryland by burning bridges. After the Baltimore Riot and the proclamation of martial law by Benjamin F. "Beast" Butler, Trimble went to Virginia, where he could still exercise his rights as a free man.
In early August, 1861, he was appointed Brigadier General in the Confederate States Army.
His first combat service in the war came throughout the brilliant Valley Campaign by the good and great Stonewall Jackson. At the Battle of Cross Keys, Trimble outflanked successive Federal attacks by John C. "the Pathfinder" Fremont. During the Seven Days, he saw little action, distinguishing himself at Gaines' Mill and Malvern Hill.
He again fought valiantly at Cedar Mountain and forced a Yankee brigade back during the skirmishes near Rappahannock Station. During General Jackson's operations at Manassas Junction, he occupied a Federal depot and captured four trains and their passengers, including a US congressman, inflicting 500 casualties to the Yankees and suffering only 4. At the Battle of Second Manassas, he was severely wounded in his leg.
Although his medical condition was severe, he wanted to do his duty in the battlefield and told Stonewall Jackson "Before this war ends, I intend to be a Major General or a corpse!"
In early 1863, he was given the promotion, but was too sick to command his division at Chancellorsville and, when General Lee reorganized the Army of Northern Virginia, his command was given to Edward "Allegheny" Johnson. General Ewell finally took Trimble as a staffer.
At the first day of the Battle of Gettysburg, Trimble suggested General Ewell exploit the advantage he had gained by smashing the Yankees, but Ewell rudely told him: "When I need advice by a junior officer I generally ask it." And the advantage was not pressed, losing a golden opportunity for Lee's army.
On the third day of Gettysburg, Trimble took part in Pickett-Pettigrew-Trimble charge, known as Pickett's Charge in popular culture. He was wounded at the very same leg he had been wounded at Second Manassas and it had to be amputated. Moreover, for fear of infection, he was left behind in the care of a Gettysburg family.
This was the end of his military career. He spent more than one year in Johnson's Island, a harsh Yankee prison. Though he was recommended for exchange, Simon Cameron said he was dangerous due to his knowledge of northern railroads. After the surrender at Appomattox, Trimble was paroled in Lynchburg, Virginia.

General Isaac Ridgeway Trimble, CSA, I salute you!
Civil War Scholar.

 

[Elennsar]

Truly a general who has never (except in accounts of the ANV's generals and battles) gotten the credit he deserves.