Mortar boats.

[major bill]

Mortar boats and towed mortar boats were used during the Civil War, but effective were they? Anyone can fire mortars into the air, but hitting anything is the problem. Without spotters it would be hard to hit a particular target. So did the Navy just fire a bunch of mortars and hope a few hit something?

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

It was rather variable. I'm under the impression that, as with aerial bombing in later wars, it was frequently more 'impressive' than 'effective.' As you say, spotters were a vital link that was sometimes missing.

Below New Orleans, when Porter's mortar boats were bombarding the forts (principally Fort Jackson), they were initially fairly accurate, when they had a clear sight-line to the fort. However, once Confederate gunners from the fort found the range to them, the mortar boats were pulled back and mostly fired blind. Farragut eventually tired of this, and had a spotter posted to signal by a flag if a mortar round landed inside or outside the fort-- when the "outsides" clearly outnumbered the "insides," it was the last straw, and Farragut gave the orders to run upriver past the forts.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

In the atlas accompanying the O.R., there's a diagram of the mortar hits on Jackson (though they don't include all the hits outside the fort):

 

[redbob]

At Vicksburg, they were moored around a bend in the river and behind hills to take them out of range of Confederate batteries; so I would say at best they were a hit or miss proposition and more of a terror weapon than an effective tool. And while the LoC photo is onboard a mortar schooner, I can't imagine that any duty on a craft where a 13" seacoast mortar was firing was very pleasant.

 

[JOHN42768]

Chunks of iron exploding or exploding chunks of iron falling on you from the sky is going to ruin anybodies day

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Is this the towed mortar boat?

Schooner CP Williams, " Deck view looking forwards "

 

[redbob]

Yes, these were probably much more common on the inland rivers than the mortar schooners.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

There were a couple dozen (maybe a few more, don't recall off-hand) of the mortar rafts... they were authorized by John C. Fremont during his tenure of command in the West. I doubt the Union really got its money's worth out of them (unlike the "Pook Turtles").

 

[Carronade]

Is this the towed mortar boat?
View attachment 319210

Schooner CP Williams, " Deck view looking forwards "
View attachment 319209

Great photos! The one of the schooner shows the pair of small guns these usually carried, in part for self defense, but they also served as patrol craft or gunboats when there were no major bombardments going on.

 

[USS ALASKA]

...but they also served as patrol craft or gunboats when there were no major bombardments going on.

I did not realize this, sir. I had always looked at them as '1 trick ponies'. Thank you for the enlightenment.
110

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I believe a number of them ended up in the East Gulf Blockading Squadron, either with or without their mortars.

 

[Carronade]

I did not realize this, sir. I had always looked at them as '1 trick ponies'. Thank you for the enlightenment.
110

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

Me too, until recently, not that I'd given it much thought, until I ran across a few references to them operating along the southern coasts, supporting troops ashore, etc.

I'd seen them described as carrying two 32-pounders in addition to their mortar. I was thinking of the long 32s on the lower decks of ships of the line, which seemed like heavy metal for a little schooner. Then I learned from postings here that there were a whole range of 32-pounders of various lengths and weights, corresponding to lighter guns like old-style long 9s or 12s. Always new things to learn!

 

[Story]

Mortar boats and towed mortar boats were used during the Civil War, but effective were they? Anyone can fire mortars into the air, but hitting anything is the problem. Without spotters it would be hard to hit a particular target. So did the Navy just fire a bunch of mortars and hope a few hit something?

Submitted for public noodling, but I think the focus of this thread might provide potential answers

What is in this tree? | Period Photos & Examinations

This is nothing more than a guess: Maybe it's a lattice work, fashioned to hold leafy twigs, etc., so as to provide camouflage for a thin man standing in the crotch of the tree. His job would be either lookout or observer--giving reports on where the artillery projectiles were landing and how...

civilwartalk.com

Now read this

What is believed to be the first recorded use of Forward Observers. May 1862 | Civil War History Discussion

Whats seen as common place today was all but unheard of before the use of balloons during the ACW. Even though some of the artillery used could fire up to 2 miles, direct fire was the norm of the day. In May of 1862 Major Albert J. Myers used signal flags from a tugboat to direct (Bracket) Union...

civilwartalk.com

It wouldn't have been particularly difficult to set up Forward Observer positions for the mortars, with some Signal Corps support.

 

[Story]

Is this the towed mortar boat?

Thanks, I tumbled down the rabbit hole.

Hey model builders! http://tardus.net/mortarBoat.html

From https://www.usni.org/magazines/nava...aments-and-innovations-union-navys-stubby-gun

 

[sawpatin]

I joined this forum because I had some questions about these mortar boats. @major bill I hope you don't mind me asking them here?

I'm referring specifically to the vessels of this sort of "casemate" appearance: https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/56200/56214/56214_mortar_boat_md.gif

• What calibre mortars did these tend to carry?
• How big were the crews?
• Were these something that would be commanded by a non-com, or an officer?
• Were any of them installed with machinery to be self-powered? Or were they all towed?
• Did any see service in coastal engagements, or were they strictly riverine craft? I'm assuming they were all flat-bottomed?
• What were the casemates made of? Were they ironclad, or was it all wood or tin?

I'd appreciate any answers

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

I can answer a few of those off the bat... some of the others I'll need to look into.

The mortars carried were 13-inchers of a standard Army pattern, I believe.
Crew: ? (Enough to man the mortar)
They were commanded by (very junior) officers.
All were towed.
Strictly riverine.
I believe there was a thin layer of armor plate, but I'd have to check.

 

[Carronade]

I joined this forum because I had some questions about these mortar boats. @major bill I hope you don't mind me asking them here?

I'm referring specifically to the vessels of this sort of "casemate" appearance: https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/56200/56214/56214_mortar_boat_md.gif

• What calibre mortars did these tend to carry?
• How big were the crews?
• Were these something that would be commanded by a non-com, or an officer?
• Were any of them installed with machinery to be self-powered? Or were they all towed?
• Did any see service in coastal engagements, or were they strictly riverine craft? I'm assuming they were all flat-bottomed?
• What were the casemates made of? Were they ironclad, or was it all wood or tin?

I'd appreciate any answers

Welcome aboard!

"Tinclad" was just a slang for a lightly armored vessel, no actual tin, just thin iron plating, basically bulletproof but not much more. I'll defer to Mark as to whether the mortar rafts had it.

I've also seen "tinclad" used for the lightly armored "Treaty cruisers" of the 1920s and for armored vehicles.

 

[USS ALASKA]

@sawpatin

Welcome to CWT from the Railroads & Steam Locomotives and The Naval War forums!

https://civilwartalk.com/forums/railroads-steam-locomotives.203/

https://civilwartalk.com/forums/the-naval-war.87/

Cheers and Enjoy!
USS ALASKA

 

[sawpatin]

I can answer a few of those off the bat... some of the others I'll need to look into.

The mortars carried were 13-inchers of a standard Army pattern, I believe.
Crew: ? (Enough to man the mortar)
They were commanded by (very junior) officers.
All were towed.
Strictly riverine.
I believe there was a thin layer of armor plate, but I'd have to check.

Thank you for those answers, much appreciated!

"Tinclad" was just a slang for a lightly armored vessel, no actual tin, just thin iron plating, basically bulletproof but not much more. I'll defer to Mark as to whether the mortar rafts had it.

My mistake, I thought I had read somewhere that sheets of actual tin were sometimes installed on requisitioned river boats as cheaper protection against small arms fire (in conjuction with cotton bales when available). I guess I was wrong.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Thank you for those answers, much appreciated!



My mistake, I thought I had read somewhere that sheets of actual tin were sometimes installed on requisitioned river boats as cheaper protection against small arms fire (in conjuction with cotton bales when available). I guess I was wrong.

Nope, @Carronade has it right-- it was slang at the time (and later for the same reasons) for something lightly or inadequately protected. No actual tin. ("Tin cans" was a later nickname for destroyers, as well...) Cotton-clad is self-explanatory. (The term "timberclad" was actually not used at the time so far as I know-- it seems to be a 20th-Century back-formation from the terms ironclad, tinclad, etc.)