More Infuriating Ebay Auctions, " Slaves "

[JPK Huson 1863]

Please note, the only reason the links are not listed is to not cause a problem for CWT. Easy enough to find, believe me! These are listed for sale as photographs of ' slaves ', for Heaven's sake. Of course. Because only enslaved, black citizens existed on the planet in the era? And worse, as a sales pitch, when you advertise a photo this way, you are able to make a sale? Perhaps they've already been removed?

There is no proof of course plus we know only a certain, well off segment of the population could afford this luxury. Yes, I am complaining. History re-written is always a disaster.

I've edited one photo because seems to have been an injury. It is not for me to advertise some earlier accident in someone's life.

Not sure where this young couple, apparently just starting out in life with a squirmy baby are automatically ' slaves '. They come across as extremely affluent.

Another hysterical ' Hidden Mother ' photograph, in fact- ridiculously distracted from by being sold as ' slave ' photograph.

She looks intimidating, like my great aunt. I'd be saying a lot of ' Ma'am ' to this imposing woman. Not, in fact, once would it occur to me to see this photograph in a listing where it is.

College student.new doctor/ there are a ton very similar on LoC, and our enslaved population always were given books- come on, people. Academic.

Little distracted by a bracelet I really like, again, what we see among our citizen portraits in LoC.

Then there is this portrait from Library of Congress, as I said, and not for sale.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

Here's another, ahem, questionable auction. Most of us here will readily recognize this photo and the seller is asking only $350.00 for it...a reprint!
Photograph Print - Slave Auction Negro Sales

 

[MRB1863]

Perhaps this may be how the auction site received its alternate moniker of "Evil-Bay"......and sometimes well deserved.

 

[John Hartwell]

Here's another, ahem, questionable auction. Most of us here will readily recognize this photo and the seller is asking only $350.00 for it...a reprint!
Photograph Print - Slave Auction Negro Sales

The seller has neatly covered himself. He goes on at length describing what he doesn't know: "This print appears to be either a photographic image or of a photographic image. Unfortunately, we just don't know exactly how this print was made. It is somehow different then a photograph in that the surface does not have the uniform shine or sheen. The surface is shiny, but there are areas that just look different to us. We don't know if this is photographic technique, or the results of some other printing method."

After saying that he acquired the print in 2001, he says outright: "We do not know the date it was reprinted. But, it was probably in recent years and no more than fifteen years ago. ... the bottom right corner of the print says: 'Prints and Photographs Division, Library of Congress' ... However, we do not have any confirmation of these mentions. ... We don't know the value of this image and are estimating its worth. It is up to you as a Buyer to determine the value through your own due diligence."

And, finally: "This is a final sale with No Return."

All the information is there. He hopes to find a buyer with more ready money than "due diligence" (or even common sense).

Now ... any buyers?

 

[Copperhead-mi]

The seller has neatly covered himself. He goes on at length describing what he doesn't know: "This print appears to be either a photographic image or of a photographic image. Unfortunately, we just don't know exactly how this print was made. It is somehow different then a photograph in that the surface does not have the uniform shine or sheen. The surface is shiny, but there are areas that just look different to us. We don't know if this is photographic technique, or the results of some other printing method."

After saying that he acquired the print in 2001, he says outright: "We do not know the date it was reprinted. But, it was probably in recent years and no more than fifteen years ago. ... the bottom right corner of the print says: 'Prints and Photographs Division, Library of Congress' ... However, we do not have any confirmation of these mentions. ... We don't know the value of this image and are estimating its worth. It is up to you as a Buyer to determine the value through your own due diligence."

And, finally: "This is a final sale with No Return."

All the information is there. He hopes to find a buyer with more ready money than "due diligence" (or even common sense).

Now ... any buyers?

And counting on the fact that many buyers on an auction site don't take the time to read the description.

 

[John Hartwell]

And counting on the fact that many buyers on an auction site don't take the time to read the description.

"A fool and his money ... "

There is a well known faction among coin and stamp collectors known as "EBay Bunnies," who get so excited over the "incredible deals" they find there that their judgement goes out the window and the dollars fly out of their pockets. All the time you see outrageous amounts being bid for absolute trash. EBay is a wonderful thing, I use it all the time. But, you have to know and understand just what you are looking at before bidding. Knowledge is everything.

 

[Mike Serpa]

The seller has neatly covered himself. He goes on at length describing what he doesn't know: "This print appears to be either a photographic image or of a photographic image. Unfortunately, we just don't know exactly how this print was made. It is somehow different then a photograph in that the surface does not have the uniform shine or sheen. The surface is shiny, but there are areas that just look different to us. We don't know if this is photographic technique, or the results of some other printing method."

After saying that he acquired the print in 2001, he says outright: "We do not know the date it was reprinted. But, it was probably in recent years and no more than fifteen years ago. ... the bottom right corner of the print says: 'Prints and Photographs Division, Library of Congress' ... However, we do not have any confirmation of these mentions. ... We don't know the value of this image and are estimating its worth. It is up to you as a Buyer to determine the value through your own due diligence."

And, finally: "This is a final sale with No Return."

All the information is there. He hopes to find a buyer with more ready money than "due diligence" (or even common sense).

Now ... any buyers?

Awwww... c'mon John, don't be too hard on the person. This seller has 100% positive feedback! Click on the sellers name and you will find - "Per eBay, all sales are contracts. Therefore, all sales are final. We do not cancel orders because they affect a Sellers account negatively. Buyers are responsible for the items they purchase. All proceeds are used to help the less fortunate." emphasis added

 

[diane]

This is bad but not unexpected. In fact, check out the Indian section.... Eeyaah!

 

[Bryan_C]

Please note, the only reason the links are not listed is to not cause a problem for CWT. Easy enough to find, believe me! These are listed for sale as photographs of ' slaves ', for Heaven's sake. Of course. Because only enslaved, black citizens existed on the planet in the era? And worse, as a sales pitch, when you advertise a photo this way, you are able to make a sale? Perhaps they've already been removed?

There is no proof of course plus we know only a certain, well off segment of the population could afford this luxury. Yes, I am complaining. History re-written is always a disaster.

Hi JPK,
I certainly appreciate your thoughts but the reality is, the free Black population that existed in the United States before the end of slavery is completely invisible to many people. The only way they can comprehend Blacks from this long ago is as slaves to White people. Too bad.

 

[civilwarincolor]

"A fool and his money ... "

There is a well known faction among coin and stamp collectors known as "EBay Bunnies," who get so excited over the "incredible deals" they find there that their judgement goes out the window and the dollars fly out of their pockets. All the time you see outrageous amounts being bid for absolute trash. EBay is a wonderful thing, I use it all the time. But, you have to know and understand just what you are looking at before bidding. Knowledge is everything.

A couple of years ago I saw a CW stereo card showing Custer with dog (one of my favorites). There was a photo of the front and back of the card and all the details and measurements were right for an 1890's reprint of the card. This being a very popular image the value was (in my opinion) $800-$1,200. Earlier and better copies can fetch $2,000 or more, but for the 1890's version I was comfortable with it bringing at least $800.

The auction started with it being listed at $9.99 so I jumped in and rode it till I won at about $225 and was thrilled! A few days later the card arrived in the mail. It was a photo copy of both the front and the back of an original card that had been reprinted on card stock and then laminated. I was so angry!

This card had been listed as an original CW card and that was clearly not the case. I shot the seller a nasty message and they claimed that they had no way of knowing if it was real or not since they had never seen any period cards and just "thought" it was an original. She said that she had listed several of them 2-3 years earlier and other people had complained that they had been reprints as well, but she thought this was different.

I reminded her that a big clue if it was a period image was that it would NOT be laminated and if it was period and laminated that it should be clearly stated as it would ruin the value. She refunded the money without me having to file a complaint. I just hope that someone else did not get stuck with it.

 

[civilwarincolor]

Here's another, ahem, questionable auction. Most of us here will readily recognize this photo and the seller is asking only $350.00 for it...a reprint!
Photograph Print - Slave Auction Negro Sales

Wow! I have to update my listing. I have the same image in color in either 2D (here) or 3D (here). We offer an 11 x 14 (this is for an 11 x 13) for $25.50. Available in B&W if you prefer.

 

[dlavin]

buyer beware

 

[Allie]

Awwww... c'mon John, don't be too hard on the person. This seller has 100% positive feedback! Click on the sellers name and you will find - "Per eBay, all sales are contracts. Therefore, all sales are final. We do not cancel orders because they affect a Sellers account negatively. Buyers are responsible for the items they purchase. All proceeds are used to help the less fortunate." emphasis added

That last line violates ebay policy. It's against the rules to claim an auction is a benefit unless it's registered as such.

 

[Allie]

Please note, the only reason the links are not listed is to not cause a problem for CWT. Easy enough to find, believe me! These are listed for sale as photographs of ' slaves ', for Heaven's sake. Of course. Because only enslaved, black citizens existed on the planet in the era? And worse, as a sales pitch, when you advertise a photo this way, you are able to make a sale? Perhaps they've already been removed?

There is no proof of course plus we know only a certain, well off segment of the population could afford this luxury. Yes, I am complaining. History re-written is always a disaster.

I've edited one photo because seems to have been an injury. It is not for me to advertise some earlier accident in someone's life.

View attachment 101607
Not sure where this young couple, apparently just starting out in life with a squirmy baby are automatically ' slaves '. They come across as extremely affluent.

View attachment 101608
Another hysterical ' Hidden Mother ' photograph, in fact- ridiculously distracted from by being sold as ' slave ' photograph.

View attachment 101609
She looks intimidating, like my great aunt. I'd be saying a lot of ' Ma'am ' to this imposing woman. Not, in fact, once would it occur to me to see this photograph in a listing where it is.

View attachment 101610
College student.new doctor/ there are a ton very similar on LoC, and our enslaved population always were given books- come on, people. Academic.

View attachment 101611
Little distracted by a bracelet I really like, again, what we see among our citizen portraits in LoC.

Then there is this portrait from Library of Congress, as I said, and not for sale.

View attachment 101605
View attachment 101606

That baby sure is squirmy! The way he moved during the photo makes his head look lopsided.

There's no guarantee that some were not slaves - house servants or skilled seamstresses could dress very well - but the assumption is offensive. Can anyone find correct attributions for any of these?

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

That baby sure is squirmy! The way he moved during the photo makes his head look lopsided.

There's no guarantee that some were not slaves - house servants or skilled seamstresses could dress very well - but the assumption is offensive. Can anyone find correct attributions for any of these?

I did try? Especially for the student, thinking various colleges would be easier- the husband and his wife, too are candidates. I'll keep looking. When I was looking into Elizabeth Keckley, bumped into the free black population hugely. This population helped her a great deal. She finally managed to buy her own way out with a lot of help- the family holding it over her head were ' living off her ', pretty much. So vastly talented and in demand, they kept ' upping ' the amount. Anyway, when you look into her story ( not necessarily her book. She really kept her private life really, really private ), this amazing world unfolds like magic. I think she was protective of it because as an enslaved woman her life was so horrendous- freed, she'd attained her goals through sheer talent, grit and love of her art. You see the society she moved in as so rich in so much- tantalizing, too because we do not see more.

 

[Suzanne A]

Fascinating. What is a "Hidden Mother" photograph? Does it trouble anyone else that the giant hands on the 5th photo from the top don't belong with child-sized head of the subject? What's that about?

This thread reminds me of the similar problem with quilts. Any quilt that looks old and primitive is claimed to be a slave quilt, when in fact very seldom is there even a wisp of proof of slave provenance. In fact whites as well made "utility quits" out of irregular scraps of clothes or roughly made fabric and, as you note re Keckley, slaves were often accomplished seamstresses and quilt makers who made or worked on the finest quilts in the mansion. Primitive does not equal slave-made, slave-made does not equal primitive. Truly slave-made quilts would be worth a great deal. The same item, if not slave-made, could be worth less than $100, if that. EBay is the source of many false claims in the quilt world as well.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Hi JPK,
I certainly appreciate your thoughts but the reality is, the free Black population that existed in the United States before the end of slavery is completely invisible to many people. The only way they can comprehend Blacks from this long ago is as slaves to White people. Too bad.

Too, too bad, and clearly idiotic, beyond revisionist, and lying to our children. With these photo auctions it is being used in a mercenary manner, ' adding insult to injury ', as my mother always said. I just replied to Allie that Keckley at least allowed us a glimpse of the world she entered, already in place for as long as this country, black American society as we see here. Not so much in her intensely ' stay out ' book- Go bless her, which disallows anyone getting to her personal life and world, who can blame her? I kept bumping into the non- Bizarro-World through her. Bizarro-World is the one where the entire black population was enslaved, Lincoln stopped it one day, The End.

Please excuse battering away at the topic. It's incredibly irritating. Goodness knows the subject has arisen. On Ancestry's ' Who Do You Think You Are?', again and again, a black actor or iconic American will trace ancestry back to no plantation in sight. The fact that this seems to be astonishing in this country is enough to make me turn off the TV.

The first person to post on this thread all about how black citizens owned enslaved gets pasted, by the way. When it is acknowledged that a black citizen may have had a degree of success, that candidate for affluence tends to be disallowed a place in society unless he can be sucked into controversy. The need to categorize is insane, too. Gosh! Sorry to rant slightly. Bumping into these on Ebay made me a little buggy.

As silly as it is to have to ' prove ', yes indeed, like dinosaurs for Heaven's sake, only a mere handful of years past nice, normal citizens pursued pretty darn successful lives across this country it does seem a running thread is necessary. How crazy.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Fascinating. What is a "Hidden Mother" photograph? Does it trouble anyone else that the giant hands on the 5th photo from the top don't belong with child-sized head of the subject? What's that about?

This thread reminds me of the similar problem with quilts. Any quilt that looks old and primitive is claimed to be a slave quilt, when in fact very seldom is there even a wisp of proof of slave provenance. In fact whites as well made "utility quits" out of irregular scraps of clothes or roughly made fabric and, as you note re Keckley, slaves were often accomplished seamstresses and quilt makers who made or worked on the finest quilts in the mansion. Primitive does not equal slave-made, slave-made does not equal primitive. Truly slave-made quilts would be worth a great deal. The same item, if not slave-made, could be worth less than $100, if that. EBay is the source of many false claims in the quilt world as well.

Isn't it wonderful? " Hidden Mother " photographs are a ' thing '. Hang on- I'll dig up some threads on them. They're hysterical- mothers could not, I should say when mothers could not ( then as now ) induce children to sit still for the requisite amount of time needed to take the shot, Mom would ' hide ' in the frame. Sometimes you see this- The Hand.

Edit- found them!

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/hidden-mothers-behind-the-bizarre.118375/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/hidden-mothers-photos-awesome-little-creepy.100294/#post-882245

 

[Suzanne A]

Isn't it wonderful? " Hidden Mother " photographs are a ' thing '. Hang on- I'll dig up some threads on them. They're hysterical- mothers could not, I should say when mothers could not ( then as now ) induce children to sit still for the requisite amount of time needed to take the shot, Mom would ' hide ' in the frame. Sometimes you see this- The Hand.

Edit- found them!

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/hidden-mothers-behind-the-bizarre.118375/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/hidden-mothers-photos-awesome-little-creepy.100294/#post-882245

Thanks for opening my eyes to this indeed "hysterical" posing of youngster with Mom who has a carpet draped over her head.

In one of your earlier posts that you linked, thank you for leaving out the photos of the dead. I certainly understand why the family would want them, some cultures today take photos of the dead laid out in the coffin at the funeral.

But the old posed photos of the dead babies are so disturbing to look at -- I bought a quilt history book called "Quilts in Everyday Lives" and the photos of dead babies and children posed with a quilt disturbed me so much I gave the book away, didn't want it in my extensive collection of books on quilt history or in my home.

 

[Allie]

Fascinating. What is a "Hidden Mother" photograph? Does it trouble anyone else that the giant hands on the 5th photo from the top don't belong with child-sized head of the subject? What's that about?

This thread reminds me of the similar problem with quilts. Any quilt that looks old and primitive is claimed to be a slave quilt, when in fact very seldom is there even a wisp of proof of slave provenance. In fact whites as well made "utility quits" out of irregular scraps of clothes or roughly made fabric and, as you note re Keckley, slaves were often accomplished seamstresses and quilt makers who made or worked on the finest quilts in the mansion. Primitive does not equal slave-made, slave-made does not equal primitive. Truly slave-made quilts would be worth a great deal. The same item, if not slave-made, could be worth less than $100, if that. EBay is the source of many false claims in the quilt world as well.

The giant hands are a common sight in photos of African American women of this era. A photo believed to be of Mary Chesnut's servant Molly shows her with huge hands. The commentary on the book which includes Molly's photo speculates that hard manual labor since childhood was the reason for the hands becoming so much larger than those of modern women.