Monument Monday, July 29, 2019

[James N.]

A bit late for the anniversary of the surrender of Vicksburg, but the monument above that marks the site of negotiations between Union Maj. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant and Confederate Lt. Gen. John C. Pemberton has an interesting history of its own. The current "monument", a 42-pounder cannon tube (barrel) planted muzzle-up is the latest to be placed - or more properly replaced - there. Originally a small tree stood on this spot beneath which the two generals met a short distance from their staffs who were really the ones working out the details of surrender, because Pemberton refused to participate in the action which was to ruin his career. As usual in cases like this, once the surrender was in effect, the poor tree quickly disappeared among the thousands of Union troops who wanted slivers of it as souvenirs. This engraved cannon was placed there, no doubt because it was more durable than the tree had been, although the date on it is incorrect: SITE OF Interview Between Genl US Grant U S A and Genl Pemberton July 4th 1863. (The meeting had occurred the day before; Union troops marched into Vicksburg on the Fourth of July.)

For some reason, the cannon was exchanged for the ball-topped marble shaft above, seen here at the time of my visit to Vicksburg in 1960. Unfortunately, the shaft shared the same weakness as the tree, and modern-day souvenir hunters were making off with it chunk by chunk. What's left of it now reposes safely inside the NPS Visitor Center and the cannon, whose whereabouts had apparently been lost for a time, is now back on the spot where the two generals met.

 

[W. Richardson]

Thank you James N.

Respectfully,
William

 

[Tom Hughes]

Great post!

 

[UCVRelics]

Good stuff. Is that a park rangers hat you are wearing.

 

[Pollaco]

Didn't differant groundskeepers find that rainwater would accumulate inside the barrels. How has the NPS remedied the situation?

 

[Reverend Ron]

I could never comprehend the motivation for people to "take things" as souvenirs from historic sites. Relic hunting is an entirely different matter than smacking an erected monument with a hammer for a piece of marble. Although I don't have time for it, I view relic hunting is a legitimate hobby. The other activity is just vandalism.

Years back, as a personal challenge/hobby I used to search for old airplane wrecks in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. It consisted of first researching old newspaper articles, gathering maps of that specific area, interviewing local residents and then stomping off into the mountains. It was surprising how often I was able to locate these wrecks (pre-GPS and internet days), most of which occurred in the 1940's and 1950's, although more modern day aircraft crashes still do occasionally happen, those are much better documented and usually easy to find.

However, I never.... ever removed anything from a airplane crash site. I considered it disrespectful, bad mojo, and if everyone passing thru removed some piece of wreckage, eventually nothing would remain for anyone else to find..

 

[Stone in the wall]

I could never comprehend the motivation for people to "take things" as souvenirs from historic sites. Relic hunting is an entirely different matter than smacking an erected monument with a hammer for a piece of marble. Although I don't have time for it, I view relic hunting is a legitimate hobby. The other activity is just vandalism.

Years back, as a personal challenge/hobby I used to search for old airplane wrecks in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. It consisted of first researching old newspaper articles, gathering maps of that specific area, interviewing local residents and then stomping off into the mountains. It was surprising how often I was able to locate these wrecks (pre-GPS and internet days), most of which occurred in the 1940's and 1950's, although more modern day aircraft crashes still do occasionally happen, those are much better documented and usually easy to find.

However, I never.... ever removed anything from a airplane crash site. I considered it disrespectful, bad mojo, and if everyone passing thru removed some piece of wreckage, eventually nothing would remain for anyone else to find..

Ron: Ever go looking for wreck Jefferson WV/Loudon Va state line? 1947 I think, was most deadly crash at that time I believe. It's little over a mile from here.

 

[Seduzal]

Thanks for sharing this awesome story and photos.

 

[James N.]

Good stuff. Is that a park rangers hat you are wearing.

Just in case you aren't being facetious and for others who may not recognize what it is, NO - it's actually one of those silly pressed-felt Centennial "Confederate" gray souvenir hats (complete with the yellow shoelace hat cord and the battleflag and crossed rifles on the front) probably purchased at the last Stuckey's Georgia Pecan Shoppe we'd visited!

Didn't differant groundskeepers find that rainwater would accumulate inside the barrels. How has the NPS remedied the situation?

That one I don't remember having heard before, so have no idea about.

 

[Reverend Ron]

Ron: Ever go looking for wreck Jefferson WV/Loudon Va state line? 1947 I think, was most deadly crash at that time I believe. It's little over a mile from here.

As I recall, that was an old C-54 converted into airline use. It was headed eastbound towards National Airport at night and just descended one ridge too soon. Impacted well below the ridge line some distance south of Route 9 and below the Appalachian Trail. I did locate that one. I have since heard that there are now houses and roads built all around it. I would imagine that the landowners had it all hauled off as scrap aluminum.

That plane wreckage had to be spray painted a light green color after it crashed. Apparently, for years afterwards, pilots overflying the site would report seeing the wreckage on the mountain thinking it was a fresh accident site. It caused repeated havoc until it was disguised.

There was also a DC-3 that crashed nearby flying westbound in a heavy thunderstorm. The pilots got caught in a micro-burst, stalled and just fell straight down out of the sky. I talked to several living eyewitnesses on that one. They described the post-crash scene as being simply horrible. All those passengers are buried in a single mass grave at a church in Leesburg, Va. It's easy to google these things now and learn all there is to know and hike directly to the crash locations with a GPS. Took all the investigative and discovery fun out of it for me.

 

[donna]

Another great photo. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Kurt G]

Just in case you aren't being facetious and for others who may not recognize what it is, NO - it's actually one of those silly pressed-felt Centennial "Confederate" gray souvenir hats (complete with the yellow shoelace hat cord and the battleflag and crossed rifles on the front) probably purchased at the last Stuckey's Georgia Pecan Shoppe we'd visited!


That one I don't remember having heard before, so have no idea about.

I suddenly had a 1960s flashback to the Stuckey's pecan shake !

 

[James N.]

I suddenly had a 1960s flashback to the Stuckey's pecan shake !

I don't remember ever trying that one, but their pecan logs were my favorites!