Model 1855 Bayonet Edges Sharpened?

[CWLeadManiac]

Hi all, again, I'm new to ACW collecting so please bear with me. On the Springfield Model 1855 bayonet, were the edges meant to be sharpened or was it used primarily as a spike bayonet? I recently bought 2 and both seem to have very dull edges with the power being in the bayonet tip. (I posted this in the relic collecting forum too but thought I'd give it a shot here) Thanks!!

 

[scooter748driver]

I can't say for sure, but I know when I had a model 91 Mosin Nagant the spike bayonet wasn't sharpened. I suspect the M1855 is the same - the triangle makes the wound much more difficult to heal. It's not a "cutting" weapon but a "sticking" one.

 

[UCVRelics]

No they were not. They were issued as most you have seen. Some soldiers may have sharpened as sitting around in camp for months soldiers would do all kinds of things.

 

[CWLeadManiac]

I can't say for sure, but I know when I had a model 91 Mosin Nagant the spike bayonet wasn't sharpened. I suspect the M1855 is the same - the triangle makes the wound much more difficult to heal. It's not a "cutting" weapon but a "sticking" one.

Very true! My Mosins have spike bayonets and so does my SKS paratrooper, although the SKS also can take a blade bayonet. I didn't even think about that, thanks!

 

[Kurtlg]

Very true! My Mosins have spike bayonets and so does my SKS paratrooper, although the SKS also can take a blade bayonet. I didn't even think about that, thanks!

The British Enfield in WW2 and post war also had a spike bayonet.

 

[Dan Kohli]

It was customary during that time period to keep pointy stuff dull when not in use. When europein style armies where expecting to be in combat they would service sharpen their bayonets and swords. The bayonet style used on most muskets were mostly of the spike verity, used for thrusting and so the point would be sharpened. Unfortunately, I don't believe that the men in the volunteer service were informed of this practice, and didn't know any better.

 

[Old Soldier]

The bayonet, like a poniard, rapier or lance, is a point weapon, not a slashing weapon. The 'sharpening of bayonets' for all bayonets was really only the point. That is why on the P53 bayonet there is that rounded bit at the end. that was the only part that needed sharpening. This is the British No4 Mk2 bayonet of 1942. It was called it 'the screwdriver of death'. It is basically a long steel nail with a socket on the end.

Still worked as a bayonet. The entrenching tool handle was even provided with a bayonet attachment so the bayonet could be attached and used as a close-quarter weapon or mine probe!

On sword/knife bayonets it was just the curve(s) at the pointed end that was sharpened. If you needed a knife, you bought one - or used your issue clasp knife! Just to illustrate the point, the Canadian Ross bayonet had to be altered in the field as it was not 'pointy' enough. Unaltered ones are rare.
Original

Modified

 

[7thWisconsin]

A triangular or cruciform bayonet doesn´t need to be sharpened to do its job. It´s a huge nail. Punch the pointy end into something and the rest will keep going. In many cases, the actual shape of the blade would make sharpening difficult anyway. It´s not a commando knife for silently dispatching lone sentries, after all. (In the case of the Mosin Nagant bayonet, it´s a twofer: a bayonet and the longest screwdriver you´ve ever seen.)

 

[thomas aagaard]

Hi all, again, I'm new to ACW collecting so please bear with me. On the Springfield Model 1855 bayonet, were the edges meant to be sharpened or was it used primarily as a spike bayonet? I recently bought 2 and both seem to have very dull edges with the power being in the bayonet tip. (I posted this in the relic collecting forum too but thought I'd give it a shot here) Thanks!!

I own bayonets for both my English P1853 and my "danish" ex French M1822s and I have handled a number of other original 19th century bayonets. And all of them have had dull edges with no sign of ever having been sharp.

There is no need for a bayonet to be sharp, even with dull edges it will still go right true a human body with very little afford.

(A few years ago we used pig chest as a target for our bayonets, and it was frightening how easy it was to push the bayonet right true the pig... even with soft iron replica bayonets made in Asia)

 

[7thWisconsin]

I think having sharp edges on bayonet would also produce a lot of unnecessary injuries to the owning side, too. Think about the motions of fixing and unfixing the bayonet, how you need to turn it, flip it, etc. Now imagine doing that while worrying about cutting yourself seriously. I have a plug bayonet that´s quite sharp (repro French and Indian War). Everybody else can put their bayonets away while I´m carefully fiddling with mine so that I don´t need stitches.

 

[bayonet]

Yes a triangular wound is difficult to treat compared to the straight blade. Back in the day in service we were told the triangular blade was against the Geneva Convention which is why only the Commies used the Triangular blade, because they don't give a squat about rules!

 

[bayonet]

I think having sharp edges on bayonet would also produce a lot of unnecessary injuries to the owning side, too. Think about the motions of fixing and unfixing the bayonet, how you need to turn it, flip it, etc. Now imagine doing that while worrying about cutting yourself seriously. I have a plug bayonet that´s quite sharp (repro French and Indian War). Everybody else can put their bayonets away while I´m carefully fiddling with mine so that I don´t need stitches.

Ah yes who here that did some military time can recall some Bonehead in the outfit stabbing himself playing with sharp or pointy blades
Or the Knuckleheads shooting themselves, but that's a tale for another thread!

 

[Old Soldier]

Yes a triangular wound is difficult to treat compared to the straight blade. Back in the day in service we were told the triangular blade was against the Geneva Convention which is why only the Commies used the Triangular blade, because they don't give a squat about rules!

The Commies used a cruxiform bayonet (M1891/30, M44 and the Chinese type 56(SKS). The triangular bayonet vanished with the Trapdoor Springfield. The No4 Mk1 was cruxiform too!

Excerpt: Contrary to the myth, triangle blades such as these are not banned by the Hague or Geneva Conventions. An additional protocol to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 bans the use of "bayonets with a serrated edge," but does not mention knives or triangle blades. (https://lewisarmymuseum.com/artifact-of-the-week/)

Yes, self-damage was the main reason for not sharpening. The only issue knife that was issued with a sharpening stone was the old jungle survival knife, now long gone (no jungles).

 

[bayonet]

The Commies used a cruxiform bayonet (M1891/30, M44 and the Chinese type 56(SKS). The triangular bayonet vanished with the Trapdoor Springfield. The No4 Mk1 was cruxiform too!

Excerpt: Contrary to the myth, triangle blades such as these are not banned by the Hague or Geneva Conventions. An additional protocol to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 bans the use of "bayonets with a serrated edge," but does not mention knives or triangle blades. (https://lewisarmymuseum.com/artifact-of-the-week/)

Yes, self-damage was the main reason for not sharpening. The only issue knife that was issued with a sharpening stone was the old jungle survival knife, now long gone (no jungles).

Yeah I was told that as a Private numerous times about the Commies violating the Geneva Convention with that bayonet. I believed it so and also passed it on when I became an Instructor. Ah what the heck blame them Pinko Red No Good Commies for everything!

 

[Old Soldier]

Yeah I was told that as a Private numerous times about the Commies violating the Geneva Convention with that bayonet. I believed it so and also passed it on when I became an Instructor. Ah what the heck blame them Pinko Red No Good Commies for everything!

We never bothered, as the days of the old rifles were long past when I was a Skill-at-Arms instructor. Most of our time was spent getting them to hit the target - and remembering to twist the bayonet before withdrawal!