Mistake in Gettysburg?

[Bloody 11th]

I know that CW movies are not always historically accurate, but just wanted to point out a scene in Maxwell's "Gettysburg"
When Tom Chamberlain is talking to the captured Confederates after the first day of fighting, he asks want regiment are you boys with? They respond Archer's Brigade, Heth's Division, which is correct since they say they are with the 1st Tenn.
But when he asks where were you boys captured, they say at the railroad cut outside of town, in so many words. That would not be correct, would it? They would have been captured on the other side of the Cashtown Pike, near McPherson's Woods. The units at the railroad cut were: 2nd Mississippi, 42 Mississippi, 55 N. Carolina, etc. Any thoughts on this?

 

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think you must be correct!

 

[Reb]

Those boys from Tennessee heard they were making a movie so they ran over to the railroad cut from McPhearson's?

 

[Aussie Billy Sherman]

An error that is small potatoes

 

[Tom Elmore]

Yes, you are right, but it might be pointless to fact check a movie that is based on a work of historical fiction. Incidentally, two other Confederate commands that fought in an adjacent railroad cut (three separate cuts were along that stretch) in the early afternoon were the 45th North Carolina and 2nd North Carolina Battalion.

 

[Reb]

I know that CW movies are not always historically accurate, but just wanted to point out a scene in Maxwell's "Gettysburg"
When Tom Chamberlain is talking to the captured Confederates after the first day of fighting, he asks want regiment are you boys with? They respond Archer's Brigade, Heth's Division, which is correct since they say they are with the 1st Tenn.
But when he asks where were you boys captured, they say at the railroad cut outside of town, in so many words. That would not be correct, would it? They would have been captured on the other side of the Cashtown Pike, near McPherson's Woods. The units at the railroad cut were: 2nd Mississippi, 42 Mississippi, 55 N. Carolina, etc. Any thoughts on this?

I had a gg uncle, Cpl James Franklin Massey, captured day 1. He was with Turney's 1st Tennessee. He was a guest at Camp Delaware by July 5th.

 

[Carronade]

It is a small error, and it is a work of fiction, but I too am puzzled that, if a writer is going to put in little details, he doesn't make a little effort to get them right. If the fellow knows the brigade and division, and knows that Confederate troops could have been captured at the railroad cut, he obviously using some historical reference, so why not use it? It wouldn't affect the scene if the prisoners were from say the 42nd Miss.

I ran across an example recently in The Churchill Factor by Boris Johnson. Writing about D-Day, he mentions the 12" guns of HMS Belfast. Belfast of course carried 6" guns; in fact there were no 12" guns anywhere in the Royal Navy at that time. There's no actual need in the narrative to mention the ship's gun caliber, but if you are going to mention it, why not get it right?

Belfast, incidentally, is now a museum ship moored in London, of which Johnson is the current mayor.

 

[Bloody 11th]

I agree it is a small thing. Great book, "Killer Angels" and also great movie"Gettysburg". In my opinion it would be hard to make a CW movie without being "cheesy" in some parts or the entire movie. Type of actors would play a huge role.

 

[photoman475]

Since this specific scene is mentioned, the Rebel who responds to Tom Chamberlain in Gettysburg leads a charmed life. After all, he was killed in Gods and Generals!

Yes, I know that Gettysburg was made first!

 

[MaryDee]

Lots of factual errors in Gettysburg, but it's still overall a good movie, especially to get young people interested in the CW! For that matter, it got this not-so-young person interested enough to accept an invitation to the BGA 150th reenactment. I started reading real history in preparation, and here I am!

 

[Carronade]

Since this specific scene is mentioned, the Rebel who responds to Tom Chamberlain in Gettysburg leads a charmed life. After all, he was killed in Gods and Generals!

Yes, I know that Gettysburg was made first!

Guess ya can't keep a good reb down!

 

[Mr. King]

Very nice observation. My avatar (GGGGrandfather) was a private in the 13th Alabama, part of Archer's brigade, so the movements of that day extremely well documented.

As you can see, Archer's Brigade was on the opposite end of the fight, and Archer and 75 or so men were captured when his brigade subsequently fell back across this creek in their rear.

Lt. Col. S. G. Shepard, 7th TN Inf., gives this account in his report:
We left our camp near Cashtown, Pa., early on the morning of July 1, and marched down the turnpike road leading to Gettysburg. We had advanced about 3 miles when we came upon the enemy's pickets, who gradually fell back before us for about 3 miles, which brought us in sight of the enemy, upon a slight eminence in our front and to the right of the road. General Archer halted for a short time while a section of a battery opened fire upon them. He then deployed the brigade in line, and advanced directly upon the enemy through an open field. At the extreme side of the field there was a small creek with a fence and undergrowth, which was some disadvantage to our line in crossing, but the brigade rushed across with a cheer, and met the enemy just beyond. We were not over 40 or 50 yards from the enemy's line when we opened fire. Our men fired with great coolness and deliberation, and with terrible effect, as I learned next day by visiting the ground.

We had encountered the enemy but a short time, when the made his appearance suddenly upon our right flank with a heavy force, and opened upon us a cross-fire. Our position was at once rendered untenable, and the right of our line was forced back. He made also a demonstration upon our left, and our lines commenced falling back, but owing to the obstructions in our rear (the creek, &c., above referred to), some 75 of the brigade were unable to make their escape, General Archer among the rest. I saw General Archer a short time before he surrendered, and he appeared to be very much exhausted with fatigue.

Being completely overpowered by numbers, and our support not being near enough to give us any assistance, we fell back across the field, and reformed just in rear of the brigade that had started in as our support. Colonel Fry took command of the brigade, and, after remaining in the woods for two or three hours, the whole line upon our left advanced. Archer's brigade advanced at the same time upon the extreme right of the line. While advancing, the enemy threw a body of cavalry around upon our right flank. Seeing this, Colonel Fry changed the direction of his front so as to protect our flank. The cavalry did not advance upon us, but hung around during the entire engagement of the evening of July 1.

 

[Borderruffian]

factual and historiacl errors and half truths in a movie? Certainly not!

 

[Mr. King]

I'm still trying to figure out what Davis was thinking by obviously not reconnoitering his left flank. All that was required was a couple staff members riding off into those woods North of the Seminary to find those "hidden" blue bellies.

Talk about nepotism. Uncle Jeff Davis gave us a fine example of the "who you know" promotion process that was rampant in those days.

 

[Borderruffian]

Even than Officerss did'nt run recon,Snotties did,especially after what happened to Stonewall.

 

[Tom Elmore]

I'm still trying to figure out what Davis was thinking by obviously not reconnoitering his left flank. All that was required was a couple staff members riding off into those woods North of the Seminary to find those "hidden" blue bellies.

Talk about nepotism. Uncle Jeff Davis gave us a fine example of the "who you know" promotion process that was rampant in those days.

The Federal infantry were in plain view and Davis wheeled his regiments to the right to outflank them. It was a sound move. However, the presence of a deep railroad cut was not apparent until his men were nearly on top of it. Entering it then seemed to be a good idea for cover and concealment, but it turned out to be a trap. Nearly the same thing occurred four hours later at the cut further west when the 45th North Carolina and 2nd North Carolina Battalion initiated a fine charge, but were surprised and abruptly halted upon reaching the edge of the steep cut there.

 

[Mr. King]

The Federal infantry were in plain view and Davis wheeled his regiments to the right to outflank them. It was a sound move. However, the presence of a deep railroad cut was not apparent until his men were nearly on top of it. Entering it then seemed to be a good idea for cover and concealment, but it turned out to be a trap. Nearly the same thing occurred four hours later at the cut further west when the 45th North Carolina and 2nd North Carolina Battalion initiated a fine charge, but were surprised and abruptly halted upon reaching the edge of the steep cut there.

It looks as if they wheeled just a bit too early, leaving the 56th PA and the 76th NY on their left flank, dumping enfilade fire on them.

 

[Tom Elmore]

The map is misleading. The 76th New York and 56th Pennsylvania were driven back from the north side of the (middle) cut by the oncoming 2nd Mississippi and 55th North Carolina, and retreated to the woods as is shown, where they stayed out of the action until after Davis was repulsed, then they moved back to their original position north of the cut, where they were joined by the 147th NY.

 

[photoman475]

Guess ya can't keep a good reb down!

Which make me wonder, if you can't keep a good Reb down, what role the guy would have played in the never-made Last Full Measure! Would he have escaped from a Union prison camp?

 

[War Horse]

It looks as if they wheeled just a bit too early, leaving the 56th PA and the 76th NY on their left flank, dumping enfilade fire on them.

Great maps