Military unit sizes questions

[james93]

Hi there everyone! I'm new to this community, so forgive me if I make a mistake or ask any stupid questions. I'm writing a novel that has a character who was a South Carolinian Union colonel during the war, but he returns home to find that his plantation had been burned during the Campaign of the Carlinas and his family killed. He goes in search of the unit responsible for the next 12 years. Anyway, my question is how big would a detachment sent to loot or pillage a home be? I originally figured a platoon or squad, but research has told me that there was no such tactical unit during the 19th century.
Another question I have is what rank would be sent out to lead this detachment? Again, I figured a Sergeant but recently read that they didn't lead squads in combat.
I appreciate any feedback received on this thread, and please tell me if this is the wrong forum to be posting this in. Thank you!

 

[leftyhunter]

Hi there everyone! I'm new to this community, so forgive me if I make a mistake or ask any stupid questions. I'm writing a novel that has a character who was a South Carolinian Union colonel during the war, but he returns home to find that his plantation had been burned during the Campaign of the Carlinas and his family killed. He goes in search of the unit responsible for the next 12 years. Anyway, my question is how big would a detachment sent to loot or pillage a home be? I originally figured a platoon or squad, but research has told me that there was no such tactical unit during the 19th century.
Another question I have is what rank would be sent out to lead this detachment? Again, I figured a Sergeant but recently read that they didn't lead squads in combat.
I appreciate any feedback received on this thread, and please tell me if this is the wrong forum to be posting this in. Thank you!

There's no such thing as a unit sent to burn or pillage a home. Union troops were entitled just as Confederate troops were to forage for food. Foraging by Troops goes back to the Caveman era and will always a occur and does occur to this day in various world wide conflicts.
A forgaing party is composed of has many men are necessary to gather food and protect themselves from armed locals or hostile Calvery, milita or guerrillas.
They would be led by who ever the CO thinks is best to lead it.
No army allowed looting or pillaging but stuff happens just like no police department allows it's officers to accept bribes or comit rape or murder but stuff happens.
No unit would admit to violating army regulations.
Loyal Southeners who suffered damages from the Union Army could post war file a claim with the Southern Claims Commission. The plaintiffs generally hires a lawyer on contingency and would be lucky to recover 2/3rds of damages.
Leftyhunter

 

[james93]

There's no such thing as a unit sent to burn or pillage a home. Union troops were entitled just as Confederate troops were to forage for food. Foraging by Troops goes back to the Caveman era and will always a occur and does occur to this day in various world wide conflicts.
A forgaing party is composed of has many men are necessary to gather food and protect themselves from armed locals or hostile Calvery, milita or guerrillas.
They would be led by who ever the CO thinks is best to lead it.
No army allowed looting or pillaging but stuff happens just like no police department allows it's officers to accept bribes or comit rape or murder but stuff happens.
No unit would admit to violating army regulations.
Loyal Southeners who suffered damages from the Union Army could post war file a claim with the Southern Claims Commission. The plaintiffs generally hires a lawyer on contingency and would be lucky to recover 2/3rds of damages.
Leftyhunter

Wade Hampton's plantation Millwood was burned during the Capture of Columbia. Do you think it was burned by foraging party too? Would that happen while troops were marching through the area or when they were camped?

 

[leftyhunter]

Wade Hampton's plantation Millwood was burned during the Capture of Columbia. Do you think it was burned by foraging party too? Would that happen while troops were marching through the area or when they were camped?

I don't know much about that . General Sherman gave strict orders for forgaing parties just to forage for food but things happen. Confederate Militia would forage from Southern civilians called " tax in kind" where they could take what ever they think the war effort required.
Wheeler's Cavalry also foraged from Southeners in Georgia.
If Hamptons house was burned maybe the Union troops had a grudge to settle. From the viewpoint of Union soldiers maybe they thought " to bad so sad".
Leftyhunter

 

[james93]

Ok I appreciate your help. That told me a lot more than searching from page to page on the internet.

 

[Tom Elmore]

During the battle of Gettysburg, Confederate soldiers universally respected private property of citizens, with two specific exceptions:

1. any home left completely vacant by fleeing occupants appeared to be considered fair game for ransacking; and
2. any residence that Union soldiers had taken over as a stronghold was liable to be burned to the ground. In the case of the Harmon residence, a few soldiers were ordered to set the fire despite the presence of two woman occupants. It's not clear who was in charge of the firing detachment; it may have been a senior enlisted man (sergeant). On the final day of the battle, the Confederates burned down a structure between the lines to prevent its use by Federal marksmen.

Union soldiers likewise burned down the vacant Bliss house and barn to prevent its use by Confederate marksmen. That required at least several companies because the buildings first had to be cleared of enemy combatants.

 

[Pete Longstreet]

Like previously stated, foraging and looting was a part of this war. Lots of times, armys were cut off from their base, and needed to subsist off the land and whatever they could find. This included marching into towns and looting from homes. At the beginning of the war, it appeared to be a more respectful process. For example, some citizens were given money in exchange for food, as well as some Commanders forbid their soldiers to loot from citizens. This was under the impression that soldiers are held to a higher standard and are to only make war against soldiers. But as the war progressed, the commanders didn't enforce this, and foraging and destruction of citizens property became part of war. By early 1864, Tecumseh Sherman was organizing marches with destruction as his objective. The Meridian Campaign is a good example of a town being almost burned to the ground and as Sherman stated: "wipe this meeting place off the map".

 

[danny]

There's no such thing as a unit sent to burn or pillage a home. Union troops were entitled just as Confederate troops were to forage for food. Foraging by Troops goes back to the Caveman era and will always a occur and does occur to this day in various world wide conflicts.
A forgaing party is composed of has many men are necessary to gather food and protect themselves from armed locals or hostile Calvery, milita or guerrillas.
They would be led by who ever the CO thinks is best to lead it.
No army allowed looting or pillaging but stuff happens just like no police department allows it's officers to accept bribes or comit rape or murder but stuff happens.
No unit would admit to violating army regulations.
Loyal Southeners who suffered damages from the Union Army could post war file a claim with the Southern Claims Commission. The plaintiffs generally hires a lawyer on contingency and would be lucky to recover 2/3rds of damages.
Leftyhunter

Deflection at its finest

 

[Rhea Cole]

When Sherman's men turned north into South Carolina vengeance was in their hearts, pure & simple. It was agreed that South Carolina had brought this awful ordeal on & as yet, not suffered for it. Despite the efforts of officers high & low, soldier of the Army of Tennessee burned just about everything in their path. Once again, as in Georgia, women & children were spared any physical assault, which is remarkable. For whatever reason, there was no animus toward North Carolina. At the northern border of SC, the burnings stopped. The march across that state was remarkably free of the wholesale destruction & vengeance visited on South Carolina. Such are the vagaries of the human heart.

Deflection at its finest

You don't actually know what deflection is, do you?

 

[privateflemming]

During the battle of Gettysburg, Confederate soldiers universally respected private property of citizens, with two specific exceptions:

1. any home left completely vacant by fleeing occupants appeared to be considered fair game for ransacking; and
2. any residence that Union soldiers had taken over as a stronghold was liable to be burned to the ground. In the case of the Harmon residence, a few soldiers were ordered to set the fire despite the presence of two woman occupants. It's not clear who was in charge of the firing detachment; it may have been a senior enlisted man (sergeant). On the final day of the battle, the Confederates burned down a structure between the lines to prevent its use by Federal marksmen.

Union soldiers likewise burned down the vacant Bliss house and barn to prevent its use by Confederate marksmen. That required at least several companies because the buildings first had to be cleared of enemy combatants.

EDIT: I see your comment only said the "battle of Gettysburg" but I thought you meant in the entire campaign. It does seem they may have only looted empty houses in the town during the three days of the actual battle.

Well in theory that was what Order No. 72 prohibited but it often wasn't obeyed in practice. That's the only way the Confederate army could sustain itself in Pennsylvania, by "requisitioning" supplies from the locals and "paying" with worthless Confederate paper money which the locals were forced to accept.

For example this is a letter dated 5 July 1863 from a Dr. William H. Boyle who describes Confederate pillaging of Chambersburg in June 1863. Some of it sounds exaggerated but I doubt there wasn't a lot of truth to it:

"Friend M'Cauley,

Having an opportunity to send a letter outside the Confed: lines I will give you a short account of our situation. The rebs have stripped this valley of everything. All the Stores – Book, Dry Goods, Groceries, Mills and Warehouses have been emptied. There is not enough left for the people to live on for two weeks. Both railroads are destroyed. All the new depot building are down. Many farms are destroyed by roads over them and encampments upon them. The telegraph lines are all destroyed. We are completely cut off from the outside world. We have had no northern papers here for over two week. We get our news via Richmond. I bought three Richmond papers from one of their newsmen on the street for 25 cents – for the three. The outrages committed on private property and on individuals have been dreadful. Murder, rape, robbery and arson are the [2] names by which you designate a few of their atrocities. Gen. Lees order to respect private property was laughed at by the vallains that compose his army. They have destroyed our Lodge room – all the regalia has been carried off or torn up to get off the lace and bullion. Not an article of regalia is left. The lamp fixturs shared the same fate. When they took possession of the Hall I saw the officer in charge and begged of him to respect that room-he promised me it should not be disturbed and placed a guard over it. The guard broke in three times and plundered it. M L [illegible] and Stumbaugh's offices are destroyed. The safes are broken open – yours among the rest – the book cases thrown down all the books carried of or scattered about, the papers strewn over the floor and tramped in the mud. Such a picture of ruin as the office presents you cannot imagine try your best. The town is one vast and nasty horse- stable. It smells so bad we can scarcely live in it. I am fearful of an epidemic. The country people fared worse than the town. All sorts of outrages were committed on their persons and property. This morning about a dozen of wagons with wounded from Gettysburg passed through here. They were followed and captured. The wagons and horses were run off and the wounded left in the Hospital which the rebs: have still here. The wounded say the fight was going against them up to Saturday morning when they left. If they retreat through here I fear they will destroy the town. I will write to you soon again if we can get a mail through. I send this to be mailed at Harrisburg.

Yours W. H. Boyle"

Here is another account from the memoirs of Sgt. Robert S. Hudgins, a member of the 3rd Virginia Cavalry under Stuart, who actually boasts about them having coerced supplies from a local woman by threatening a baby near Carlisle on June 30:

"It was while on this raid that one of the most humorous incidents of the whole war occurred. "Bang" Phillips, Joe Ham, and myself had decided to go on a little foraging expedition as we had very meagre rations for several days. We rode up to a farm house of one of the Dutch farmers to ask if we could buy something to eat. After a knock at the door a comely woman carrying a baby of about six months answered. We asked her very politely if we could buy some food because we hadn't much to eat in recent days. She responded, "I have nothing and if I did, I'd not give it to you." "Bang" began edging closer to the woman as he asked her again, this time stating it as though she shouldn't let us starve. She again responded, "You dirty Rebels will get nothing from me. I'd like to see the whole murderous lot of you die." Without warning, "Bang" snatched the baby from her arms. She let out a scream and it was obvious that all of her former bravado was gone. "Bang" threatened her with the possibility, although untrue, that we'd have to eat the baby if we couldn't get something else. He then offered to trade her the baby for some bacon, whereupon she set out ham, fowl, bacon, bread, and butter. We had a glorious feast and took the remainder back to camp after paying her (in Confederate money) for all we had taken."

 

[Tom Elmore]

There is a distinction to be made between pillaging and official confiscation (although perhaps not in the eyes of the populace). The latter involved a planned and officially sanctioned effort to haul away any item of potential value to the Confederate military. A strict accounting was usually observed with respect to places of business, with a receipt provided to the owner. The list included dry goods, grain and other food, clothing (especially hats and shoes), livestock and horses. Destruction of railroad infrastructure and telegraph lines served a military purpose and should be expected. It is true that farm fields suffered when soldiers camped or passed through them, and many fence rails disappeared for cooking purposes, but this likewise occurred with the passage of Federal troops even through Maryland and Pennsylvania.

A few isolated instances of violence against civilians by Confederate stragglers were reported, but nothing on the scale of atrocities claimed by Dr. Boyle, based on many other civilian and soldier accounts. Quite a few local women in towns along the route of march were unafraid to show themselves when the Confederates marched past, and even openly demonstrate their allegiance to the Union without fear of harm. However, Black citizens had valid reasons to fear being taken back into captivity, thus many fled the region well ahead of the Confederate advance. Incidentally, a few instances of violence were reported against Confederate stragglers or lone couriers by local bushwhackers.

Individual or small groups of soldiers in both armies often sought out the nearby farmhouses along the march to beg for food, but they were generally respectful and thankful; some might offer to pay if they had the means. Many commands enforced strict discipline and punished even minor transgressions such as stealing a chicken or raiding a garden. However, it is also true that many a chicken or pig disappeared in Pennsylvania when the Confederates passed by, just as they had in Virginia when the Federals were nearby.

 

[danny]

When Sherman's men turned north into South Carolina vengeance was in their hearts, pure & simple. It was agreed that South Carolina had brought this awful ordeal on & as yet, not suffered for it. Despite the efforts of officers high & low, soldier of the Army of Tennessee burned just about everything in their path. Once again, as in Georgia, women & children were spared any physical assault, which is remarkable. For whatever reason, there was no animus toward North Carolina. At the northern border of SC, the burnings stopped. The march across that state was remarkably free of the wholesale destruction & vengeance visited on South Carolina. Such are the vagaries of the human heart.

You don't actually know what deflection is, do you?

That's the second time in this thread that you have asked me about definitions. I call that "snark."

 

[NedBaldwin]

Hi there everyone! I'm new to this community, so forgive me if I make a mistake or ask any stupid questions. I'm writing a novel that has a character who was a South Carolinian Union colonel during the war...

What does the bolded part mean? Are you saying he was from SC but served in the US army?

 

[privateflemming]

There is a distinction to be made between pillaging and official confiscation (although perhaps not in the eyes of the populace). The latter involved a planned and officially sanctioned effort to haul away any item of potential value to the Confederate military. A strict accounting was usually observed with respect to places of business, with a receipt provided to the owner. The list included dry goods, grain and other food, clothing (especially hats and shoes), livestock and horses.

But I mean that's still stealing in all but name. They had no intention to pay anyone back using "receipts" and if they did it was only in Confederate money which held almost no value by that point, least of all in Pennsylvania.

 

[Tom Elmore]

Actually, Pennsylvania citizens in some counties could file damage claims after the war for losses from depredations, so an official receipt might prove helpful in those cases.

 

[leftyhunter]

Actually, Pennsylvania citizens in some counties could file damage claims after the war for losses from depredations, so an official receipt might prove helpful in those cases.

By depredation do you mean from the Confederate or Union Army. Southern Unionists could file a claim against the Union Army from the Southern Claims Commission but would be very fortunate if they recovered two thirds of damaged as such claims for practical purposes required a private attorney on a contingency basis.
Did filing for a claim in Pennsylvania require for practical purposes a private attorney?
Leftyhunter

 

[Rhea Cole]

That's the second time in this thread that you have asked me about definitions. I call that "snark."

A statement of fact is, just that. I merely pointed out that referring to a dictionary would be illuminating.

 

[bankerpapaw]

Welcome from NW Georgia. Remember there are no such things as stupid question. We have some extremely smart people who keep people like you and me straightened out.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Welcome from NW Georgia. Remember there are no such things as stupid question. We have some extremely smart people who keep people like you and me straightened out.

I always tell my greats & grands that there is just one dumb question, it is called that because it is the one you didn't ask.

 

[Peace Society]

Homes in the line of march were more in danger than ones, say, a mile or more off the line. Some companies and regiments had a greater reputation as (I want to say thieves and destroyers, but that sounds kinda harsh). Some of them considered anything in their path they could use as fair game. Some seemed to go out of their way to loot and destroy. South Carolina, of course, was subject to a lot more of that because they were considered to blame for starting the war.