Middlesex Village Trading Co.

LtRusell

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I have found a fairly cheap Enfield Carbine (M1856) on this site. It’s smooth bore although I plan on new barrel by a gunsmith that’s rifled. I also heard they are back ordered 6 to 8 weeks. That’s fine but I was wondering if anyone has done business with them.

As cannot find the carbine anywhere else, this is the only seller available.
 

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captaindrew

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I have found a fairly cheap Enfield Carbine (M1856) on this site. It’s smooth bore although I plan on new barrel by a gunsmith that’s rifled. I also heard they are back ordered 6 to 8 weeks. That’s fine but I was wondering if anyone has done business with them.

As cannot find the carbine anywhere else, this is the only seller available.
I checked that site out. I had never heard of them before, they are selling Indian made repros. I have no personal experience with the Indian made guns but they have had some bad press. Remember you get what you pay for. I would stick with Dixie Gun Works or Lodgewood or one of the reputable Civil War suttlers like Regimental Quartermaster or Blockade Runner if you're looking for a repro black powder gun. I know Dixie offers several of the short model Enfields if that's what you're looking for.
 

mofederal

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From what I have seen arms made in India are bit on the questionable side. I would go with someone who produces reliable arms, after all you are going to be using it. I think despite what they say in the disclaimer about guns made in India, I would buy from Dixie Gun Works, or Lodgewood I know they are dependable. As are the sutlers mentioned. If it is the only one available, then I would make sure no one else makes them before making that decision.
 

LtRusell

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I took your advice and looked around. These are exceptionally scarce and only originals. I haven't found one that hasn't been sold. Seems I found a hens tooth, but not a nice one.

As far as unreliability or a danger in shooting I plan on having it proofed, 100 rounds, actual rounds, ran through it. I am not too concerned with the barrel as I have possibly found someone who can do a custom reproduction of it. That remains to be seen.

There is the alternative of the Richmond Carbine. As a strictly Florida unit (I'm not really allowed to participate in the big, historical reenactments) I'm not sure that would work. My thought would be that there were a mix of long arms, uniforms, as well as civilian clothes.

It's not really at this point a cut and dried thing. I'm almost positive I will called farby, but far be it from them to really say something about it. It isn't the 2nd Florida.

Oooof. I'm off topic.
 

captaindrew

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I took your advice and looked around. These are exceptionally scarce and only originals. I haven't found one that hasn't been sold. Seems I found a hens tooth, but not a nice one.

As far as unreliability or a danger in shooting I plan on having it proofed, 100 rounds, actual rounds, ran through it. I am not too concerned with the barrel as I have possibly found someone who can do a custom reproduction of it. That remains to be seen.

There is the alternative of the Richmond Carbine. As a strictly Florida unit (I'm not really allowed to participate in the big, historical reenactments) I'm not sure that would work. My thought would be that there were a mix of long arms, uniforms, as well as civilian clothes.

It's not really at this point a cut and dried thing. I'm almost positive I will called farby, but far be it from them to really say something about it. It isn't the 2nd Florida.

Oooof. I'm off topic.
What is your impression? That model Enfield was pretty rare even then, is there documentation that your unit had those? Most of that model were shipped to the Middle East. Seems like you are going to spend a bit of money on it after you get it. If you are looking for a carbine I can't help to think a P53 musketoon,2 band Enfield, or a Cook and Brothers might be a better choice. Those are available from Dixie and good to go out of the box. But hey, it's your dime and if that's what you want good luck with it and let us know how it works out and post some pics.
 

mofederal

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I read a really good thread about the Indian made arms. They are wall hangers. Once in the US they are converted to turn them into an arm that can fire blanks. By drilling out the nipple. More than a few on the Forum have suggested to never fire one of the India made arms. There is a thread on the Middlesex Village Comp. I am no good at posting links, but you can look for it.
 

LtRusell

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CS/Volunteer Florida Coast Guard. While fairly little known, they were a part of the units in the state. The best known (and represented) is Co. K, 7th Infantry,the Key West Avengers. They were mustered into the Army of the Tennessee. They lost 38% of their men to the CS Navy and were They are a reenactment unit in Florida, I believe Department of the Gulf, but I might be wrong, s'don't hold me to that.

While being called for a very short time units of CG were in the Cape Fear River area. I'm still doing my research on what they did, and on some units, how long they served for. Some have a detailed service record, some not. SOme have large numbers of men as Co. K, some smaller. There were men serving in State service already, and they were mustered in in 1862, and consolidated by the end of the war by Johnston as there were so many depleted units.

As they are a highly respected and known reenactment group I'm choosing State Service over that big battles. While these units did not participate in the large battles they were instrumental as pilots on the east coast of Florida's interconnected waterways.

I say I am doing my research. A man on here from Jupiter Inlet, of which shallow draft craft only could make it through the shifting sands of the inlet, has a very detailed history of the war in the region that I am in. I have heard that the ships were off loaded into smaller boats and moved north but as yet have definitive proof of that. I have also heard of clandestine shipyard in the area of the Indian River, although I think it more local legend that actual fact.

Before I do get up and going I have contacted the Florida Historical Society to have the records for such service researched and brought out for me to take notes off of.

As to why I'm stuck on this particular weapon? I'm at this point not. My research will have to go further into what they were carrying as weapons, uniforms, and craft used by them. I'm looking forward to this and making the unit into a presentable outfit on the first go.

I would imagine that M1842 smoothbores were carried, I'm not certain at this point that they may have or not been armed with M1853 Enfield rifles, so the matter needs to be hashed out through the stacks as it were I have had a few very good books recommended to me on the subject of the war in Florida as well as my own particular area.

So my representation at this point is purely in the research stage. I think I got a bit impulsive (compulsive maybe?) about the carbine. Much like any Enfield it would have had to pass the blockade somewhere. Although 60 some odd ships were taken by various Union "90 day" gun boats, many more made it through.

I will include a few links, if you would care to peruse them as your time allows.

But no, never mind India. Thanks for the advice, you all.

http://myweb.fsu.edu/rthompson2//cw/guard/guard_units.html

 

captaindrew

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Good to see someone doing their homework for their impression. Co. K has an interesting history. I'm familiar with 7th Fl. Dept. of the Gulf. I'm with 8th Fl. Co. C and see those guys regularly. Did Co. K actually make it to The Army of Tennessee before they were transferred to the Navy and Coast duties? If so I'd imagine at some point they were issued regular infantry longarms such as p53 3 band Enfield, captured m55 or m61 Springfield or an older conversion rifle or Mississippi rifle. If they never left Fl. there's no telling, could have been anything they could get their hands on or brought from home. I honestly don't think they would have had any carbines. What carbines were available were issued to the cavalry. As far as a uniform goes check out adulphusconfederateuniforms.com. and go to the research articles and look at some of the deep south uniforms. I think a deep south or commutation style jacket, civilian style trousers and a slouch hat would probably be a good representation and a regular longarm. With that kit if you had the desire you could also attend some of the bigger events and fit right in. Florida had no depot systems like the other states and regions. they went out to the other states and scrounged what they could. As far as the 8th goes I was pretty lucky, there is good documentation that they were supplied by the Richmond depot when they arrived in Virginia along with the 2nd and 5th. so I go with a Richmond depot uniform. Good luck with your research and impression and post what you find here, I for one am very interested. Hopefully I'll see you at an event soon.
 

LtRusell

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Thank you for the compliment as well as the page on uniforms. For a uniform geek like I am, it's always interesting to see the evolution of them. It also dispelled a few things I had in my mid about jean vs. kersey. Put my mind at ease.

Sitting around this morning and poking around online. Yes, Co. K did make it to the Army of the Tennessee, for an entire month. Co. K also had up to 38% loses from May 1862 to March 1864. There seems to be "overlap" in service. Some were already in service of the state. Others, who had spent most of their lives on the water, didn't much like the idea of being under army command. They were already being sworn into the Florida Coast Guard under Captain Henry Mulrenan. Others were in 2nd Lt. Able Merander.

Seems by the end of the war that Co. K was back on the field, thrown into the catchall 1st Florida Regiment that had been made up of other badly depleted Florida Regiments. Co. K surrendered with "??" at Bennett's.

Of course that was the 7th. Interesting that as the war progressed they made to ironclads and at war's end they were back on land.

I'm looking more at a unit as the one recorded as commanded by Capt. A. B. Noyes. They were mustered into CS for discharge after three months or service, or sooner, on 9 October 1861. This was with the caveat
"when called into Confederate service of the Confederate States."
They were put into the service of the State of Florida on 10 October 1861. They were stationed at St. Marks, and after that the trail runs cold. There is no record of them serving in the army, no discharge and no parole. That was what brought my attention to the CSCG at first; Noyes Co. just disappeared in the records.

I feel this does give me slightly more leeway in my, and anyone else who is interested the impression. The only thing I am looking at is that by this unit, that my participation will be limited at some of the bigger events. The flip side to that is that I oft don't have time to make it to every one of them anyway. As many are maximum effort, I can't at this point be held to that.

Good and bad to every situation.

Thanks and I'm off to search for weapons.



 


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