Merrill carbine, 2nd model

[ewmail15]

Found a guy on ebay (Alan, interarms_tx) who has the screws I need for the buttplate. They're .406 (13/32") head diameter for old Springfield M1855-64 (US Military Screw Set). I asked him if the single screw auction was a 13/32 head match. Replied he had another set that would do the trick. Just never know what's interchangeable out there unless I ask.

I've also restored the breech lever and plunger to fully operational. Whew! That just leaves work on the front sight and finding a rear sight and brass band. I'm hopeful. Gonna post a gif of several pics with the lever/plunger in different positions.

 

[ewmail15]

Had to grind the overlap parts of the breech lever and the plunger with my dremel. It'll all clean up beautifully with 400/800/1500 water-usable sandpaper. There's also some gap I need to take care of where the lever bends.

 

[ewmail15]

Do I have a 2nd or 3rd model Merrill? The lever latch lug would only seem to work with the 3rd model sight. I go back to the assembly marks on the barrel/lever/plunger/buttplate of 8/43 vs those on the lockplate/hammer/bridle/sear of 4/43. Lockplate has 1863. Is the lockplate assembly 2nd model, where the barrel+ are 3rd model?

1st model had the patch box, the wider end lever top and latch release mechanism, no lever latch lug, unique rear and front sights, and second serial on the rear lockplate face. All correct?

Could someone with good Merrill knowledge share 2nd vs. 3rd features? 2nd eliminated the patchbox, changed the lever and rear/front sight? Could the 3rd have just been addition of the lever latch lug and unique rear sight, plus newer assembly numbers (8/43) on the barrel/receiver/lever/plunger/buttplate, with the lockplate assemble and saddle being from 2nd model assembly (4/43)?

2nd rear sight - http://ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MER3
3rd - http://ssfirearms.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MER4

Buttplate screws I picked up had the right head diameter 13/32" but have dthread diameters way under the needed 17/64". Bonehead strikes again for not confirming before buying. So, I'm still looking.

Lastly, has anyone ever seen a steel rod 1" in front of the buttplate tang that went straight down to the bottom of the stock? Sad I had to drill around the top screw, but unavoidable to check the stock as original or repro.

 

[ewmail15]

Can anyone with a 2nd model Merrill carbine send me some pics (side, front) of your sight, plus measurements on length, width (at base and when tapered), height (overall and when tapered)? Just realized I need to heat the parts to 1600F to liquify that brazing.

I'll have a much better chance fabricating and welding a vertical piece in place on the to-be-flattened sight.

I found someone's pic of 1st and 2nd model carbines. 2nd seemed a few inches longer(?) and with a larger/taller stock around the buttplate. Anyone have weights for both models?

I have yet to see any Merrills as complete reproduction, either for sale or parting out. Did repros match only one of the models or were parts non-interchangeable? I did see one carbine for sale with what looked original but had a completely repro plunger piece connected to the lever (had jhmerrillbalto... rolled markings) - was shiny steel vs. worn all else.

I'm highly confident my stock, with the band wear on the wood, the very aged band screw head, the buttplate screws rusted tight in the wood threads, and exacting part fittings, plus that lockplate broken mainspring sitting in the stock, the steel rod down the rear of the stock.

Could still be persuaded it's not original, if I could see pics of a repro stock. The only marking is US in circle above the saddle bar, but matches the U.S. on the buttplate tang. If original, it had been cleaned up along with the metal parts. Maybe it was NOS surplus stock from after the war, where the owner either served and bought the carbine or was an outright general public sale, he needed a new stock some time after, as the stock had weaknesses from significant use and had the gunsmith install the rod. If I could find anyone else with such a rod in their stock.

I did see another carbine or rifle with the buttplate removed to show ten or more rods installed horizontally for apparent strength. Wish I had saved the pic to share here. Merrill or other I don't recall.



Eric

 

[Cpl. Smith]

This is a very interesting thread.

 

[ewmail15]

Thanks Cpl Smith. Granted, this Merrill was in a far better starting position than my 1859 Sharps carbine, a $2 garage sale find (my first thread on this forum), it's given me just as much fun. More to come.

 

[ewmail15]

Has any Merrill owner had the opportunity to disassemble your Merrill? I'm looking for confirmation on part assembly numbers, per my previous post(s) in this thread.

I'd also like to know how the numbering was for both 1st and 2nd models. Maybe the only change was the matching serial on the 1st's lockplate rear replaced with the 1863 or 1864 in 2nd or 3rd model. Mine is an 1863 with 3/43 assembly numbers on lockplate-related parts, but 8/43 on all the rest. Anyone able to decipher the assembly numbers for me?

 

[ewmail15]

Here's a 1st model with what has to be a repro plunger. There was another Merrill on GunBroker for $1900. Maybe it found a new home.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/769240374

 

[ewmail15]

It's been a while since I posted to this thread. I bought a retro rear sight and aged it nicely, and same goes for the band. Thanks to Bill McCarthy on providing a beautiful original-matching width and center-drilled. hole. SnS sent a too-thin, off-center, odd-shaped band, when I had also ordered the 3rd type sight.

Here's a night shot. I'll try to set up a black cloth background for the hi-res camera pics this weekend. Red cider vinegar did a good job on the brass.

 

[ewmail15]

As part of my new-found passion for Merrill's, I've captured lots of bayonet photos and details. I'm trying to talk a guy into selling me what I believe is a Merrill bayonet. I received a message from a guy who had a spec bayonet to mate to his rifle, but the fit at the muzzle was too loose. It was a right 25 1/2" blade and 30 1/4" overall, lug fit style plus serial marking.

Anyone with a bayonet and rifle able to give me the ring diameter of the bayonet. I don't think I have any photos of my rifle finds with the bayonet on the rifle. Please share some bayonet on rifle photos.

I can't recall the converted rifle model that shared the same bayonet with minor change, to the ring diameter and lug fit? All my photo'd bayonets have the 1861 or 1862 on the richest, so none were intended for the '40s/'50s conversion(s).

 

[ewmail15]

I made it thru the paperback book from Terry White. Title was something like Ammunition manufacturers for breech-loading, percussion weapons during the Civil War.

75 pages of biographical and historical info on Merrill, his businesses, and a little bit on his non-CW life (of 120 pgs total) . Some of the great finds included White's documented sources for his findings, like 49 union and 19 confederate REGIMENTS were equipped with Merrill's, the post-war sales of 3800 unsold Merrill's to identified buyers and quantities/dates, his post-war ventures and his death date and location. I can now use ancestry.com and confidently find loads of additional info on Merrill's life, as well as several referenced newspaper articles to search with newspapers com.

I have the ranges of company assigned Merrill's from the SRS disc and found a handful there that I also have as photographs. Sure would be nice to have members here who also have Merrill's to send pics my way. New online finds keep me optimistic that this website will be fun indeed to share with everyone, which will spur on new additions to my list of serial-ID'd Merrill rifles, carbines, bayonets, cartridges bags, prototypes, conversions. I just learned that Merrill also converted Springfield 1847 Musketoons (examples 1848 and 1851).

 

[ewmail15]

If you want a great looking, right dimension carbine brass band, you better contact Bill McCarthy. He only charged me $15 for mine, vs. the too thin, off-center-drilled screw hole, oblong shaped band I received from S&S (then returned).

 

[Package4]

Can anyone tell me what is the piece in front of the breech lever latch, where the rear sight should be? Could that be a telltale non-adjustable rear sight piece specific to the CSA model? Seller said his ex's family traced back to living in the south.

Also, would the hole in the lock plate be for the main spring's rod/node to fit in place? I haven't found any pics or diagrams to help me understand what's on the backside. Hope she's not too pitted outside or inside.

View attachment 182803

There were no CS Merrills, they were produced in Baltimore Maryland

 

[Package4]

I made it thru the paperback book from Terry White. Title was something like Ammunition manufacturers for breech-loading, percussion weapons during the Civil War.

75 pages of biographical and historical info on Merrill, his businesses, and a little bit on his non-CW life (of 120 pgs total) . Some of the great finds included White's documented sources for his findings, like 49 union and 19 confederate REGIMENTS were equipped with Merrill's, the post-war sales of 3800 unsold Merrill's to identified buyers and quantities/dates, his post-war ventures and his death date and location. I can now use ancestry.com and confidently find loads of additional info on Merrill's life, as well as several referenced newspaper articles to search with newspapers com.

I have the ranges of company assigned Merrill's from the SRS disc and found a handful there that I also have as photographs. Sure would be nice to have members here who also have Merrill's to send pics my way. New online finds keep me optimistic that this website will be fun indeed to share with everyone, which will spur on new additions to my list of serial-ID'd Merrill rifles, carbines, bayonets, cartridges bags, prototypes, conversions. I just learned that Merrill also converted Springfield 1847 Musketoons (examples 1848 and 1851).

There were only around 15,000 Merrill Carbines made and Union cavalry issues went to at least 12 regiments; I find it highly unlikely that Merrills were issued to Confederate units unless captured.

 

[ewmail15]

How wrong you are... Info will be on my website next month.

 

[Package4]

How wrong you are... Info will be on my website next month.

Very interested and very skeptical of Mr. White's claims unless captured arms, by the way, there were only 2 types of Merrill carbines. You can also add a M1841 Merrill conversion to your list.

Merrills were replaced rather quickly, as other arms became available, they were prone to fouling after a few rounds. I read somewhere that 90 odd officers were asked to rank it and 5 gave it the best and 45 gave it absolutely worthless, the balance in between. There were also complaints about barrels bursting and wrists cracking.

1866 US Cavalry carbine trials ranked it the worst and slowest of the available carbines (I imagine breechloaders), thus the sale to private citizens.

A beautiful piece that I have always had an affinity for, living in Maryland, but no doubt ranks with the Joslyn.

 

[ewmail15]

Here are what'll be part of my Merrill website. If you have a Merrill in this serial list, please let me know. Many sites had poor resolution images. Thanks, Eric.

Rifle
1069 1469 1506 1572 1591
2450
3173 3651
5522
6330 6522 6766 6810
7252 7292
8092 8165 8515 8587 8623 8770
9602 9633
10585 10690 10700
14029 14116 14156 14180 14343

Bayonet
1152 1366 1373 1382 1634 1711 1740 1994
2670 2861 2975
3152 3538
4023 4438 4606 4622 4725 4950
5137 5327 5375 5453 5611
6073 6115 6539
7121 7383 7530 7632
8441 8443 9432 9731 9823
10368 10477
6 unknowns and 2 blank (14,000+ serial rifle matches)

Carbine
125 228 270 278 341 344 360 468 588 731 949 962
1081 1125 1220 1291 1300 1312 1420 1601 1737 1889 1971
2099 2259 2285 2324 2359 2386 2415 2450 2598 2618 2730 2768 2834 2840
3010 3087 3170 3173 3301 3344 3391 3394 3458 3476 3801 3903
4155 4235 4266 4267 4295 4323 4373 4396 4423 4625 4683 4916 4935 4944 4950
5211 5377 5402 5425 5438 5489 5518 5626 5684 5685 5778 5843 5844 5862 5866 5946 5954 5966
6091 6231 6289 6290 6413 6543 6546 6602 6651 6656 6859 6863
7015 7034 7220 7237 7274 7282 7328 7415 7433 7434 7471 7488 7574 7579 7613 7758 7809 7851 7892 7960 7973 7987
8174 8188 8298 8321 8350 8354 8474 8524 8656 8701 8721 8913 8931 8945
9102 9114 9240 9305 9372 9512 9524 9684 9803 9942
10049 10050 10104 10132 10231 10283 10340 10446 10450 10456 10519 10585 10729 10794 10821 10841
11052 11207 11213 11253 11276 11468 11561 11775 11786 11844
12155 12169 12225 12276 12298 12308 12332 12349 12428 12450 12459 12488 12602 12691 12718 12767 12776 12818 15866 12910 12940
13001 13032 13073 13093 13207 13288 13308 13317 13344 13498 13525 13605 13621 13647 13671 13859 13873 13964 13977
14010 14013 14028 14034 14041 14097 14112 14202 14207 14228 14246 14398 14420 14432 14470 14473 14548 14555 14640 14660 14684 14737 14774 14778 14804 14848 14849 14897 14910
15232 15341 15487 15548 15555 15615 15728 15862 15836
16016 16107 16170 16208 16314 16553 16578 16666 16682 16710 16969
19070

 

[SJU5]

Tomorrow I plan on spraying some Ballistol on my Merrill Conversion Rifle. I will look for any serial markings that might have been covered up with age.

 

[ewmail15]

Menard's has great pads to gently wear down the aged crud and rust. They're right at the front cleaning supplies section, next to the copper mesh style pads.

 

[The Pennsylvania Line]

I just finished watching this video on the Merrill Carbine and found the history of the 18th Pennsylvania Cavalry interesting.