Mercenary soldiers

[atlantis]

I haven't come across anything about CS employing or attempting to employ Mercenary forces. Did they, if not why, weren't there plenty of unemployed mill workers in England for example.
During the war for independence by the 13 colonies the British employed Hessian soldiers so the example was not unknown to CS policymakers.
Any one have something on this.

 

[JOHN42768]

It depends on how you look at who is a mercenary. It may or may not have been a monetary arrangement. Special commissioner Albert Pike formed treaty agreements with the Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes, also engineered treaties with the Creek, Seminole, Comanche and Caddos, among others. IMHO they would be considered mercenaries.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/confederacy-signs-treaties-with-native-americans

 

[atlantis]

It depends on how you look at who is a mercenary. It may or may not have been a monetary arrangement. Special commissioner Albert Pike formed treaty agreements with the Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes, also engineered treaties with the Creek, Seminole, Comanche and Caddos, among others. IMHO they would be considered mercenaries.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/confederacy-signs-treaties-with-native-americans

How did the US counter this?

 

[DaveBrt]

Mercenaries were bought/sold by the regiment. The British used soldiers that were contracted to Britain, by German states, in regiments, not as individuals. Who had regiments they wanted to rent to the South?

 

[atlantis]

Mercenaries were bought/sold by the regiment. The British used soldiers that were contracted to Britain, by German states, in regiments, not as individuals. Who had regiments they wanted to rent to the South?

I don't know, Europe was seeing plenty of action in the same time frame, Mexico also.

 

[leftyhunter]

It depends on how you look at who is a mercenary. It may or may not have been a monetary arrangement. Special commissioner Albert Pike formed treaty agreements with the Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes, also engineered treaties with the Creek, Seminole, Comanche and Caddos, among others. IMHO they would be considered mercenaries.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/confederacy-signs-treaties-with-native-americans

The above article doesn't mention any kind of compensation for the various tribes aligned with the Confederacy. For practical purposes the allied Indians were not mercenaries because what would they be paid with? Confederate money wouldn't be worth as anything in the Indian Territory. The Indians couldn't even be supplied with then contemporary weapons.
Leftyhunter

 

[atlantis]

The above article doesn't mention any kind of compensation for the various tribes aligned with the Confederacy. For practical purposes the allied Indians were not mercenaries because what would they be paid with? Confederate money wouldn't be worth as anything in the Indian Territory. The Indians couldn't even be supplied with then contemporary weapons.
Leftyhunter

Why did they enter into treaties with CS they must have known Uncle Sam would not be happy with that.

 

[atlantis]

What about Canadians were they not a little hostile to US. Confederate dollars were interest bearing notes offering a nice payday.

 

[leftyhunter]

Why did they enter into treaties with CS they must have known Uncle Sam would not be happy with rporstethat.

One major reason is Indian leaders such has Stan Waite owned slaves. The Indians were split on who to fight for and as I quoted from sources in my thread" the Confederacy was not nicer to the Indians" the Confederate Army used white and Indian units to attack and massacre Indians who wished to stay neutral. Many Indians originally alligned with the Confederacy deserted or even defected to the Union.
Some Indian leaders must of realized as the idea was already being argued that the US would eventually annex the IT which did happen and the IT became present day Oklahoma.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

What about Canadians were they not a little hostile to US. Confederate dollars were interest bearing notes offering a nice payday.

How did that work out?
Leftyhunter

 

[JOHN42768]

The above article doesn't mention any kind of compensation for the various tribes aligned with the Confederacy. For practical purposes the allied Indians were not mercenaries because what would they be paid with? Confederate money wouldn't be worth as anything in the Indian Territory. The Indians couldn't even be supplied with then contemporary weapons.
Leftyhunter

As I stated there was no mention of money, but even though the tribes were less then satisfied with treatment of the Federal government, they were equally disenchanted with the treatment received from the South. There would have had to be some incentive to take sides as opposed to letting the North and South just have a go at each other with them enjoying the battles . Maybe their highest valued item, that being LAND. Ergo ,monetary value in exchange for service rendered. A treaty of any kind is an agreement to get this for that and vise versa.

 

[leftyhunter]

As I stated there was no mention of money, but even though the tribes were less then satisfied with treatment of the Federal government, they were equally disenchanted with the treatment received from the South. There would have had to be some incentive to take sides as opposed to letting the North and South just have a go at each other with them enjoying the battles . Maybe their highest valued item, that being LAND. Ergo ,monetary value in exchange for service rendered.

Not sure how either side could guarantee land. From what I remember Stan Waite eventhough he appointed a Brig. General by the Confederacy only commanded a few hundred men. Ideally the Confederate allied Indians would have basic autonomy and keep their slaves but it was not to be.
Leftyhunter

 

[JOHN42768]

Refer back to original source above:
By signing these treaties, the tribes severed their relationships with the federal government, much in the way the southern states did by seceding from the Union. They were accepted into the Confederates States of America, and they sent representatives to the Confederate Congress. The Confederate government promised to protect the Native American's land holdings and to fulfill the obligations such as annuity payments made by the federal government.
So land and money were promised as part of treaty.

 

[leftyhunter]

Refer back to original source above:
By signing these treaties, the tribes severed their relationships with the federal government, much in the way the southern states did by seceding from the Union. They were accepted into the Confederates States of America, and they sent representatives to the Confederate Congress. The Confederate government promised to protect the Native American's land holdings and to fulfill the obligations such as annuity payments made by the federal government.
So land and money were promised as part of treaty.

Granted they were promised all kinds of things but the Confederacy couldn't deliver so the Confederate Indians weren't mercenaries in any sense since they weren't paid.
Leftyhunter

 

[Lampasas Bill]

Back to the question of hiring foreign mercenaries: What could the Confederacy do to entice them? Mercenaries fought for pay, and the Confederacy was barely able to pay its own troops.

 

[leftyhunter]

Back to the question of hiring foreign mercenaries: What could the Confederacy do to entice them? Mercenaries fought for pay, and the Confederacy was barely able to pay its own troops.

Therefore the Confederacy couldn't hire mercenaries. The Confederacy could pay its own troops just in monopoly money and even then they were late in doing so.
The US government had hired mercenaries previously in what is now Libya to attack pirates.
The forigeners on the CSN were mercenaries hoping to cash in their captured merchandise from Yankee ships but unless they siezed small items that they could sell in foreign pawn shops they were out of luck as there were no prize courts they could use.
Leftyhunter

 

[archieclement]

Why did they enter into treaties with CS they must have known Uncle Sam would not be happy with that.

Perhaps because the US track record of honoring treaties with Indians was .................until we want your land again..............Uncle Sam hadn't been very reliable as an Indian agent or a treaty partner........

 

[uaskme]

Lincoln suspended Annuity Payments. When they resumed they were paid in paper rather than specie. Treaties stated Specie which was worth much more than paper.

States Rights with a weak Central Government was important to them.

Confederacy gave them Representation in Government.

Albert Pike was a RR advocate. Offered Natives input into RR Planing.

All Soldiers were Paid. The Yankee offered free land, citizenship and Bounties. A S Johnson called the Yankee Agrarian Mercenaries.

 

[JOHN42768]

My last comment on this is that "anyone entering a treaty/agreement for land or payments in return for aiding one side against the other with manpower during a war is a mercenary regardless if payment was ever consummated or not" Enough said.

 

[JOHN42768]

Granted they were promised all kinds of things but the Confederacy couldn't deliver so the Confederate Indians weren't mercenaries in any sense since they weren't paid.
Leftyhunter

Sorry, I have to reply to this. So if an individual goes into a bank to rob it of funds and doesn't get any , then they should not be considered an attempted bank robber? OK. Now enough said.