May I Pick The Experts' Brains On Photo, Please?

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Location
Central Pennsylvania
Nothing but gratitude in return and if this is not era then so sorry, Ami- when it's not Civil War I have the feeling it's a big faux pas posting photos here! I'm back and forth. You would think with JamesB really generously keeping an eye on our photographs, James N and quite a few others I'd be better at this by now. Is she just barely post-war? Late 60's or 70's or a lot later? Pretty sure she's a Scots grgrgrandmother, a Buchanon. The date matters. Given it appears someone set up a very home-made photographer's studio inside a room somewhere, or she went somewhere local a visiting photographer set up shop perhaps this was an awfully special occasion like her wedding. She could be any age- teens to mid 2o's?

Pinterest has ruined me for accuracy, too- how important it is, not mere snootery, honest. CWT keeps you on point.

buchanon wedding pic maybe emelines mother.jpg
 
Lovely photograph, but its definitely the late 1870s or early 1880s. The two tier dress, fitted bodice with narrow sleeves, the hat and the parasol. And if you look closely near top of her hips you'll see a bustle forming towards the back. She's fairly well dressed though with matching flowers on the dress and hat and even has a parasol, but that could be a prop. If you look to the left towards the bottom of the photo you'll notice she's on stage or platform of some sort. I agree, the studio looks very thrown together. The tarp almost reminds me of a wagon cover. If I had to guess at her age maybe 18-25?

Faux pas continues as here's a fashion plate from the 1880s. This is way more elaborate than the photograph you posted, but the fashion plates always were the high end example of fashion during a given era.
tumblr_meqkj5V5QZ1rpsft7o1_1280.jpg
 

Attachments

  • tumblr_meqkj5V5QZ1rpsft7o1_1280.jpg
    tumblr_meqkj5V5QZ1rpsft7o1_1280.jpg
    334.7 KB · Views: 20
I agree with the timeline Anna and James have given. During the war (and before) the ideal face was round and full at the sides, so hairdos and bonnets would emphasize this. The long thin facial look, with hair and hat on top, was a later development. Plus the flat front and narrow sides of the skirt, and the suggestion of a bustle in back. Also, I'm not seeing the dropped armscye (where sleeve attaches to bodice) so characteristic of earlier periods (although the photo is dark enough that it's hard to tell).
 
The 1870s weren't so different in style from the 1880s. Plus, women often remade dresses from older sisters and family members and would try to spruce them up and make them more current if they could, which also makes dating a piece difficult when certain features aren't obvious from a particular era.

This plate is from Godey's & dated 1870. The skirts here look fuller than what the period young lady is wearing, but it doesn't look remarkably different than the first plate I posted as those dresses just look somewhat more narrow and less embellished.
godeys_may_1870.jpg


Since it's my lunch hour I took a few minutes to lighten up @JPK Huson 1863's photograph to see the details more & sharpened it a bit as well. Hope you don't mind JPK - just thought cleaning it up some would help with dating it.
revised_photo.jpg


The hat she's wearing looks titled up more than it should be for the type I think. See the below image, it's very similar to the one on the upper left I believe in style had it been placed further down in a titled downward position instead of the titled back position its in we could probably tell better.

victorian-hats-5.jpg
 

Attachments

  • godeys_may_1870.jpg
    godeys_may_1870.jpg
    193.4 KB · Views: 19
  • victorian-hats-5.jpg
    victorian-hats-5.jpg
    58.1 KB · Views: 24
Last edited:
In the "refurbished" photo, the armscye seam definitely appears at the top of the shoulder, as with modern dresses. You would not have seen this in the 1840s-1860s (although I'd have to check my notes from last spring's workshop to know when the dropped armcye started). The purpose of the dropped armscye (which made a horizontal line on the upper arm) was to make the upper torso look wider, to emphasize a narrower waist. I'm definitely no expert here, but I did learn a lot from that workshop in Oregon City last April.

If we could see the dress from the side or back, we'd know more. In the 1870s, big bows at the rear of the skirt (which our lecturer called "butt bows," certainly not a term used at the time) were popular.

It's certainly true that older dresses were remodeled to conform to more recent fashions. The original dresses we examined during that workshop often showed signs of this. Not everyone did a good job of the remodel. One obviously had the sleeves sewn in backwards!
 
I agree with what others are saying about the clothing. I'm also thinking her outfit was made or at least altered at home, not by a professional seamstress... It has that look of being put on inside out, basted, and then taken off and sewed so it fit the person exactly. Which sometimes made things slightly wopsidigimous, as her bodice appears to be. (Do people other than my family use that word? It means lopsided, out of kilter.)

The photo itself looks a little different from what I'm used to seeing in that era. Is there anyone out there who is a vintage photo collector who can comment on the photo itself?
 
I agree with what others are saying about the clothing. I'm also thinking her outfit was made or at least altered at home, not by a professional seamstress... It has that look of being put on inside out, basted, and then taken off and sewed so it fit the person exactly. Which sometimes made things slightly wopsidigimous, as her bodice appears to be. (Do people other than my family use that word? It means lopsided, out of kilter.)

The photo itself looks a little different from what I'm used to seeing in that era. Is there anyone out there who is a vintage photo collector who can comment on the photo itself?

You know I wondered why the dress seemed a little off, that's why I mentioned the remaking and updating old styles trying to make them look new.

I collect daguerreotypes and CDVs but I'm more of the person who picks them up at thrift stores, garage sales and sometimes online, I'm not a die hard collector expert, but the photo doesn't appear to be either of those types as it looks more like the type of photographs that were popular in the 1920s judging from the paper used, especially taking into consideration the bends in the one corner. Is it a photograph of an earlier photo?

Here's a site about identifying CDVs and other types of photos as well if you look at the menu - http://www.phototree.com/id_cdv.htm

It doesn't seem to apply to this photo, not unless its been cropped and its definitely not a cabinet card either.
 
The 1870s weren't so different in style from the 1880s. Plus, women often remade dresses from older sisters and family members and would try to spruce them up and make them more current if they could, which also makes dating a piece difficult when certain features aren't obvious from a particular era.

This plate is from Godey's & dated 1870. The skirts here look fuller than what the period young lady is wearing, but it doesn't look remarkably different than the first plate I posted as those dresses just look somewhat more narrow and less embellished.
godeys_may_1870.jpg


Since it's my lunch hour I took a few minutes to lighten up @JPK Huson 1863's photograph to see the details more & sharpened it a bit as well. Hope you don't mind JPK - just thought cleaning it up some would help with dating it.
View attachment 86312

The hat she's wearing looks titled up more than it should be for the type I think. See the below image, it's very similar to the one on the upper left I believe in style had it been placed further down in a titled downward position instead of the titled back position its in we could probably tell better.

victorian-hats-5.jpg
I'm way out of my league here, I have no idea about women's fashion but I have to ask a question about the colour plate (Godey's Fashion) would I be right in thinking that the dresses they are wearing have been influenced by the French, its just that the picture looks very European. My wife disagrees with me, she doesn't see any French influence.
 

Attachments

  • godeys_may_1870.jpg
    godeys_may_1870.jpg
    193.4 KB · Views: 19
  • victorian-hats-5.jpg
    victorian-hats-5.jpg
    58.1 KB · Views: 17
In the "refurbished" photo, the armscye seam definitely appears at the top of the shoulder, as with modern dresses. You would not have seen this in the 1840s-1860s (although I'd have to check my notes from last spring's workshop to know when the dropped armcye started). The purpose of the dropped armscye (which made a horizontal line on the upper arm) was to make the upper torso look wider, to emphasize a narrower waist. I'm definitely no expert here, but I did learn a lot from that workshop in Oregon City last April.
I agree. The armscye in the photo is definitely after the dropped-seam era.
 
I'm way out of my league here, I have no idea about women's fashion but I have to ask a question about the colour plate (Godey's Fashion) would I be right in thinking that the dresses they are wearing have been influenced by the French, its just that the picture looks very European. My wife disagrees with me, she doesn't see any French influence.

According to a book I read about the plates showcased in Godey's, they were 'Americanized' French fashions, so they sort of are French but with an American twist :wink: The La Mode Illustree was a similar French version of the plates and a beauty magazine. Often they were much more fanciful and depicted much smaller waist lines. Many reproductions of their prints turn up on eBay and Etsy.
 
According to a book I read about the plates showcased in Godey's, they were 'Americanized' French fashions, so they sort of are French but with an American twist :wink: The La Mode Illustree was a similar French version of the plates and a beauty magazine. Often they were much more fanciful and depicted much smaller waist lines. Many reproductions of their prints turn up on eBay and Etsy.

La Mode Illustree

s320x240.jpg
 

Attachments

  • s320x240.jpg
    s320x240.jpg
    25.3 KB · Views: 27
Ah ha! Oh please, no illusions here and thank you very much, anyone who helped- pretty lucky this forum attracts so many members conversant with these points. You would think it would be easier- it isn't although should have noticed what looks to be some fullness towards her, rats- bustle end. Quite serious when I say it's become a habit to look to CWT for these things. The internet is so full of misinformation, foolhardy trusting even what appear to be solid sites?

Very post-war then! So interesting, whoa! She is probably, although won't say for certain, an aunt, Barbara Buchanon, not old enough to be my grgrgrandmother. How disheartening! A woman in a tintype wearing a dress from probably the 1870's/80s not old enough to be my great great grandmother? *sigh* Very much appreciate the input, hopefully have learned something(s).

Scots- it's a hand-trimmed tin-type, should have said so, sorry! The edges are terribly irregular, like someone used shears too unwieldy for the job. If there are confusing aspects with this image, could be because it originated in Nova Scotia? The dress would probably have been made at home- can't see the family either buying something like that or employing dressmakers. Not sure they'd have bothered making things like blouses, etc. We have quite a few woven, then crafted articles from them, some lovely things, tartans. Honest to goodness tartan, dyed by hand, ( the grgrandmother I knew grew up speaking Gaelic at home ) we can see they're Buchanon; not factory dyes so they do not match exactly. They would not, batches not being the same. They farmed sheep- first in Scotland then Nova Scotia.

Keeping us honest, some era photos since you collect them Anna, although I've edited originals- must dig up the scans here and there. Bestey Huson's is post war I know- the high, frilled collar? 2 more old tintypes are from our Scots roots, PEI Nova Scotia. Wish I did know more, seems a little criminal being caretaker to these old treasures and not know more. We have a good amount through sheer good fortune. Do not wish to be boring, a few just for interest.

Yes, I know this is she post-war, just like all her frills. One of my favorite ancestors- she was a hoot.
huson betsey.jpg



A grgrgraunt, sounds about right. ' Lusa '. for some reason, grgrgrandfather's sister. Thought maybe you'd like her hair.

huson lusa.jpg



WH Huson, JPK's brother
huson wh.jpg



So here's another Canadian tintype- another Scot, a Stuart. Christy Belle. She was all of 5'11", very sweet. cannot tell a lot by this photo on what she is wearing? Grgrgrandfather's sister. There's that thing again, a trimmed tin type?
stuart christy belle tintype.jpg



Best ever although not women's fashions- Malcolm Angus Stuart, 3x's grandfather, PEI Nova Scotia, right out of Dickens! He was 6' 9" or 10". I thought he was only 6'8", Mom corrected me not long ago. Giants. Better believe someone hand-made all their clothing.
stuart ma.jpg
 
Back
Top