Mary Todd Lincoln Mary Todd's Plot to Kill Abraham Lincoln

TCC

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Aug 4, 2024
Mary Todd and Abraham Lincoln were to be married on January 1, 1841, at the Edwards' mansion. Mary's sister, Mrs. Ninian Edwards, was hosting the marriage. On their wedding day, Mary Todd stood at the Edwards' mansion clad in her bridal robes in anticipation of the wedding. The guests had gathered, and the feast prepared, but the bridegroom did not come. Mrs. Edwards said,
"Lincoln and Mary were engaged, everything was ready and prepared for the marriage, even the supper. Mr. Lincoln failed to meet his engagement."

At this time, an auditor for the state said he would not take the state's script (paper money) to pay taxes. He wanted payment in silver. Abraham Lincoln wrote a sarcastic letter to the editor of the Sangamon Journal on September 2, 1842, and used the pen name Rebecca. Lincoln's article angered the state auditor, James Shields. Mary had dated James Shields and knew he was a fighting man. James Shields was easily provoked.
Mr. Shields went to see the editor of the paper and asked for the name of the person who had written the article. The editor could see Shields was upset. Shields told the editor he wanted an apology and would get satisfaction. The editor told him Abraham Lincoln had written the article. Shields had business out of town, and for the time being, he let the matter drop.
When Mary saw the article in the paper written under the pseudonym Rebecca, she recognized Abraham's writing style. Mary saw her chance to get revenge on Abraham Lincoln, and James Shields was the man to do it. She wrote a letter to the editor, using the pen name Rebecca and poking fun at James Shields. She wanted to instigate a fight between Shields and Lincoln.
Unknown to Mary, James Shields was out of town. When her first letter to the editor did not produce the desired effect, she turned up the heat by writing another letter and another. When James Shields returned to town, he discovered a new series of letters ridiculing him.
Shields believed Lincoln was writing these letters to ridicule and humiliate him. Unknown to James Shields, Mary Todd deliberately created this hostility to get revenge on Abraham Lincoln.
James Shields wrote a letter to Lincoln dated September 17, 1842.

A. Lincoln, Esq.
In two or three of the last numbers of the Sangamon Journal, articles of the most personal nature, and calculated to degrade me, have made their appearance. On inquiring, I was informed by the editor of that paper that you are the author. I have become by some means or other, the object of your secret hostility. I will not take the trouble of inquiring into the reason of all this; but I will take the liberty of requiring a full, positive, and absolute retraction of all offensive allusions used by you in these communications. This may prevent consequences which no one will regret more than myself.
Your obedient servant,
Jas Shields


Lincoln's response on the same day:

Jas. Shields, Esq.
Your note of today was handed me by Gen. Whiteside. In that note, you say you have been informed, through the medium of the editor of 'The Journal,' that I am the author of certain articles in that paper which you deem personally abusive of you and without stopping to inquire whether I really am the author, or to point out what is offensive in them, you demand an unqualified retraction of all that is offensive and then proceed to hint at consequences.
Now, sir, there is in this so much assumption of facts, and so much of menace as to consequences, that I cannot submit to answer that note any further than I have, and to add, that the consequence to which I suppose you allude would be matter of as great regret to me as it possibly could to you.
Respectfully A. Lincoln


For several weeks, Shields was demanding satisfaction. Dueling was illegal in Illinois. He proposed they go out of state to fight a duel. Letters went back and forth between Shields and Lincoln, between their seconds, friends, and supporters. It was the talk of the town. James Shields put Lincoln in an unwinnable situation.
Finally, Lincoln wrote to Shields, "I did write the 'Lost Township' letter which appeared in the 'Journal' of the 2d inst., but had no participation in any form in any other article alluding to you." Lincoln's note cooled tension between him and Shields.
Lincoln was able to keep Mary Todd's name out of the conflict, and it saved her from any embarrassment. After things calmed down, the wife of the newspaper editor, Eliza Francis, decided to play matchmaker. She invited Abraham and Mary to a party. At the party, Abraham and Mary began speaking to each other.
Mary began to renew her desire to marry Abraham Lincoln. On November 3, Abraham Lincoln and Mary Todd discussed marriage. Mary Todd wanted to get married right away, and Abraham agreed.
The Edward family realized they would have to accept Lincoln if they wanted Mary to remain in their lives. They offered to host the wedding at their home. The next day, on Friday, November 4, Abraham obtained a marriage certificate. They planned to be married that very evening.
 
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Mary Todd and Abraham Lincoln were to be married on January 1, 1841, at the Edwards' mansion. Mary's sister, Mrs. Ninian Edwards, was hosting the marriage. On their wedding day, Mary Todd stood at the Edwards' mansion clad in her bridal robes in anticipation of the wedding. The guests had gathered, and the feast prepared, but the bridegroom did not come. Mrs. Edwards said,
"Lincoln and Mary were engaged, everything was ready and prepared for the marriage, even the supper. Mr. Lincoln failed to meet his engagement."

At this time, an auditor for the state said he would not take the state's script (paper money) to pay taxes. He wanted payment in silver. Abraham Lincoln wrote a sarcastic letter to the editor of the Sangamon Journal on September 2, 1842, and used the pen name Rebecca. Lincoln's article angered the state auditor, James Shields. Mary had dated James Shields and knew he was a fighting man. James Shields was easily provoked.
Mr. Shields went to see the editor of the paper and asked for the name of the person who had written the article. The editor could see Shields was upset. Shields told the editor he wanted an apology and would get satisfaction. The editor told him Abraham Lincoln had written the article. Shields had business out of town, and for the time being, he let the matter drop.
When Mary saw the article in the paper written under the pseudonym Rebecca, she recognized Abraham's writing style. Mary saw her chance to get revenge on Abraham Lincoln, and James Shields was the man to do it. She wrote a letter to the editor, using the pen name Rebecca and poking fun at James Shields. She wanted to instigate a fight between Shields and Lincoln.
Unknown to Mary, James Shields was out of town. When her first letter to the editor did not produce the desired effect, she turned up the heat by writing another letter and another. When James Shields returned to town, he discovered a new series of letters ridiculing him.
Shields believed Lincoln was writing these letters to ridicule and humiliate him. Unknown to James Shields, Mary Todd deliberately created this hostility to get revenge on Abraham Lincoln.
James Shields wrote a letter to Lincoln dated September 17, 1842.

A. Lincoln, Esq.
In two or three of the last numbers of the Sangamon Journal, articles of the most personal nature, and calculated to degrade me, have made their appearance. On inquiring, I was informed by the editor of that paper that you are the author. I have become by some means or other, the object of your secret hostility. I will not take the trouble of inquiring into the reason of all this; but I will take the liberty of requiring a full, positive, and absolute retraction of all offensive allusions used by you in these communications. This may prevent consequences which no one will regret more than myself.
Your obedient servant,
Jas Shields


Lincoln's response on the same day:

Jas. Shields, Esq.
Your note of today was handed me by Gen. Whiteside. In that note, you say you have been informed, through the medium of the editor of 'The Journal,' that I am the author of certain articles in that paper which you deem personally abusive of you and without stopping to inquire whether I really am the author, or to point out what is offensive in them, you demand an unqualified retraction of all that is offensive and then proceed to hint at consequences.
Now, sir, there is in this so much assumption of facts, and so much of menace as to consequences, that I cannot submit to answer that note any further than I have, and to add, that the consequence to which I suppose you allude would be matter of as great regret to me as it possibly could to you.
Respectfully A. Lincoln


For several weeks, Shields was demanding satisfaction. Dueling was illegal in Illinois. He proposed they go out of state to fight a duel. Letters went back and forth between Shields and Lincoln, between their seconds, friends, and supporters. It was the talk of the town. James Shields put Lincoln in an unwinnable situation.
Finally, Lincoln wrote to Shields, "I did write the 'Lost Township' letter which appeared in the 'Journal' of the 2d inst., but had no participation in any form in any other article alluding to you." Lincoln's note put an end to the fight between him and Shields.
Lincoln was able to keep Mary Todd's name out of the conflict, and it saved her from any embarrassment. After things calmed down, the wife of the newspaper editor, Eliza Francis, decided to play matchmaker. She invited Abraham and Mary to a party. At the party, Abraham and Mary began speaking to each other.
Mary began to renew her desire to marry Abraham Lincoln. On November 3, Abraham Lincoln and Mary Todd discussed marriage. Mary Todd wanted to get married right away, and Abraham agreed.
The Edward family realized they would have to accept Lincoln if they wanted Mary to remain in their lives. They offered to host the wedding at their home. The next day, on Friday, November 4, Abraham obtained a marriage certificate. They planned to be married that very evening.
Do you have a citation for this so we can read more? thanks
 
Mary Todd and Abraham Lincoln were to be married on January 1, 1841, at the Edwards' mansion. Mary's sister, Mrs. Ninian Edwards, was hosting the marriage. On their wedding day, Mary Todd stood at the Edwards' mansion clad in her bridal robes in anticipation of the wedding. The guests had gathered, and the feast prepared, but the bridegroom did not come. Mrs. Edwards said,
"Lincoln and Mary were engaged, everything was ready and prepared for the marriage, even the supper. Mr. Lincoln failed to meet his engagement."

At this time, an auditor for the state said he would not take the state's script (paper money) to pay taxes. He wanted payment in silver. Abraham Lincoln wrote a sarcastic letter to the editor of the Sangamon Journal on September 2, 1842, and used the pen name Rebecca. Lincoln's article angered the state auditor, James Shields. Mary had dated James Shields and knew he was a fighting man. James Shields was easily provoked.
Mr. Shields went to see the editor of the paper and asked for the name of the person who had written the article. The editor could see Shields was upset. Shields told the editor he wanted an apology and would get satisfaction. The editor told him Abraham Lincoln had written the article. Shields had business out of town, and for the time being, he let the matter drop.
When Mary saw the article in the paper written under the pseudonym Rebecca, she recognized Abraham's writing style. Mary saw her chance to get revenge on Abraham Lincoln, and James Shields was the man to do it. She wrote a letter to the editor, using the pen name Rebecca and poking fun at James Shields. She wanted to instigate a fight between Shields and Lincoln.
Unknown to Mary, James Shields was out of town. When her first letter to the editor did not produce the desired effect, she turned up the heat by writing another letter and another. When James Shields returned to town, he discovered a new series of letters ridiculing him.
Shields believed Lincoln was writing these letters to ridicule and humiliate him. Unknown to James Shields, Mary Todd deliberately created this hostility to get revenge on Abraham Lincoln.
James Shields wrote a letter to Lincoln dated September 17, 1842.

A. Lincoln, Esq.
In two or three of the last numbers of the Sangamon Journal, articles of the most personal nature, and calculated to degrade me, have made their appearance. On inquiring, I was informed by the editor of that paper that you are the author. I have become by some means or other, the object of your secret hostility. I will not take the trouble of inquiring into the reason of all this; but I will take the liberty of requiring a full, positive, and absolute retraction of all offensive allusions used by you in these communications. This may prevent consequences which no one will regret more than myself.
Your obedient servant,
Jas Shields


Lincoln's response on the same day:

Jas. Shields, Esq.
Your note of today was handed me by Gen. Whiteside. In that note, you say you have been informed, through the medium of the editor of 'The Journal,' that I am the author of certain articles in that paper which you deem personally abusive of you and without stopping to inquire whether I really am the author, or to point out what is offensive in them, you demand an unqualified retraction of all that is offensive and then proceed to hint at consequences.
Now, sir, there is in this so much assumption of facts, and so much of menace as to consequences, that I cannot submit to answer that note any further than I have, and to add, that the consequence to which I suppose you allude would be matter of as great regret to me as it possibly could to you.
Respectfully A. Lincoln


For several weeks, Shields was demanding satisfaction. Dueling was illegal in Illinois. He proposed they go out of state to fight a duel. Letters went back and forth between Shields and Lincoln, between their seconds, friends, and supporters. It was the talk of the town. James Shields put Lincoln in an unwinnable situation.
Finally, Lincoln wrote to Shields, "I did write the 'Lost Township' letter which appeared in the 'Journal' of the 2d inst., but had no participation in any form in any other article alluding to you." Lincoln's note cooled tension between him and Shields.
Lincoln was able to keep Mary Todd's name out of the conflict, and it saved her from any embarrassment. After things calmed down, the wife of the newspaper editor, Eliza Francis, decided to play matchmaker. She invited Abraham and Mary to a party. At the party, Abraham and Mary began speaking to each other.
Mary began to renew her desire to marry Abraham Lincoln. On November 3, Abraham Lincoln and Mary Todd discussed marriage. Mary Todd wanted to get married right away, and Abraham agreed.
The Edward family realized they would have to accept Lincoln if they wanted Mary to remain in their lives. They offered to host the wedding at their home. The next day, on Friday, November 4, Abraham obtained a marriage certificate. They planned to be married that very evening.
Didn't see this.

Any source for Mary's prodding of Shields?
 
Do you have a citation for this so we can read more? thanks
The wedding was to occur the next day, January 1, 1841, at the Edwards' mansion.[1]​ On her wedding day, Mary Todd stood at the Edwards' mansion clad in her bridal robes in anticipation of the wedding. The guests had gathered, and the feast was prepared, but the bridegroom did not come.[2]​ Mrs. Edwards said,

"Lincoln and Mary were engaged, everything was ready and prepared for the marriage, even the supper. Mr. Lincoln failed to meet his engagement." [3]


[1] Ellis Paxson Oberholtzer, Abraham Lincoln (Philadelphia: George W. Jacobs, 1904), 34.
[2] William Herndon, The True Story of a Great Life (Belford-Clark, 1890), 3:15.
[3] Ward H. Lamon, The Life of Abraham Lincoln (James Osgood and Co., 1872),218
 
Didn't see this.

Any source for Mary's prodding of Shields?
After doing research, this is my original work. You can find many other writers with similar opinions.
For example, from the Lincoln Collection website,
After Mary Todd (to whom Lincoln had been engaged the year before) and Julia Payne wrote a similar letter, Shields demanded that the editor reveal the identity of the author. Upon learning that Lincoln had written the letters, Shields challenged him to a duel.
 
After doing research, this is my original work. You can find many other writers with similar opinions.
For example, from the Lincoln Collection website,
After Mary Todd (to whom Lincoln had been engaged the year before) and Julia Payne wrote a similar letter, Shields demanded that the editor reveal the identity of the author. Upon learning that Lincoln had written the letters, Shields challenged him to a duel.
I mean Mary setting this up as vengeance.
 
This came from another website JohnRoger.com? I think. It hasn't been active or at least this thread hasn't been active since 2012. I think there is a bit more to the story about this. Herndon is NOT a reliable source by any means.

"According to author Benjamin P. Thomas, as written in his book Abraham Lincoln, the Lincoln leaving Mary Todd at the altar story came from none other than William H. Herndon. Herndon, in need of making a living at the time, sold copies of the material he had been collecting for a book on Lincoln to Ward Hill Lamon. Lamon's book The Life of Abraham Lincoln appeared in 1872- and contain the "altar story." Because the material for Lamon's book actually came from Herndon, there were several other sensational items found therein, including: Thomas Lincoln was a lazy vagabond, Lincoln loved smutty stories, Mrs. Lincoln was a shrew, and Ann Rutledge was the only woman Lincoln ever loved. By the way, Lamon didn't actually write the book. It was ghost written by Chauncey F. black, son of Buchanan's Attorney General."
 
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Secrets are the glue that holds together people with conflicting ideologies. Withholding information may allow people with unpopular ideas to form and maintain friendships. If their secret is revealed, it may cause them to lose their life, job, wife, husband, or standing in the community.

Lincoln, Davis, and Booth needed to keep secrets to protect themselves from judgmental people. To become president, Lincoln and Davis needed some personal information kept hidden. Booth wanted his marriage kept secret so he could continue to pursue ladies.

Years before Thomas Lincoln married Nancy Hanks, he developed a growth on his testicles. A doctor removed them. Today, most people believe Thomas Lincoln was Abraham Lincoln's father. He wasn't. Thomas was unable to conceive a child. Nancy Lincoln gave birth to Abraham after having an affair with Samuel Davis.

In Lincoln's time, many would not vote for a bastard. Before Abraham went into politics, his mother's adultery needed to be forever hidden. Lincoln's supporters began telling stories that gave him and his family a positive image. Lincoln's improved image assisted his entry into politics. He became the 16th president of the United States.

Four years after becoming president, an assassin's bullet ended his life. Most people believe a lone Confederate sympathizer planned and killed the president. Nothing could be further from the truth. It took a massive amount of planning and preparation to kill the president. The main concern of the people plotting the assassination was to keep their identities unknown.

The people planning Lincoln's assassination obtained the services of a fanatic, John Wilkes Booth. His only task was to pull the trigger. Everything else was prepared for him.

Misinformation about Abraham Lincoln, from birth to death, is everywhere. Lincoln was a great intellect and a compassionate human being. The truth about his birth, poverty, and upbringing does not detract from his importance to our nation.

In this book, information about Abraham Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, and John Wilkes Booth comes from their writings, family, friends, and people living at the time.

Some of the family secrets are:
* Elizabeth Sparrow arranged a marriage between Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks after Nancy was raped and impregnated by her employer.
* Nancy Lincoln learned to hate Thomas Lincoln.
* Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis were brothers.
* Abraham Lincoln was in love with Matilda Edwards, not Mary Todd.
* Abraham jilted Mary Todd at their wedding.
* Mary manipulated James Shields into demanding a duel with Abraham.
* John Wilkes Booth was a married man.
* Jefferson Davis needed to keep his Confederate supporters from learning that he was once married to an Indian.
* Jefferson Davis persuaded John Wilkes Booth to kidnap Lincoln, but he did not want Lincoln killed.
* Vice-president Andrew Johnson convinced John Wilkes Booth to kill Lincoln.
* John Wilkes Booth was never inside the Garrett barn.
* John Wilkes Booth escaped to India.

This book explains why Lincoln, Davis, and Booth needed to keep secrets.

Three of Troy's shorter books, "Jefferson Davis's Brother: Abraham Lincoln," "Izola," and "They Wanted Lincoln Dead," have been combined to make "Lincoln, Davis, and Booth: Family Secrets."
 
View attachment 526701


Secrets are the glue that holds together people with conflicting ideologies. Withholding information may allow people with unpopular ideas to form and maintain friendships. If their secret is revealed, it may cause them to lose their life, job, wife, husband, or standing in the community.

Lincoln, Davis, and Booth needed to keep secrets to protect themselves from judgmental people. To become president, Lincoln and Davis needed some personal information kept hidden. Booth wanted his marriage kept secret so he could continue to pursue ladies.

Years before Thomas Lincoln married Nancy Hanks, he developed a growth on his testicles. A doctor removed them. Today, most people believe Thomas Lincoln was Abraham Lincoln's father. He wasn't. Thomas was unable to conceive a child. Nancy Lincoln gave birth to Abraham after having an affair with Samuel Davis.

In Lincoln's time, many would not vote for a bastard. Before Abraham went into politics, his mother's adultery needed to be forever hidden. Lincoln's supporters began telling stories that gave him and his family a positive image. Lincoln's improved image assisted his entry into politics. He became the 16th president of the United States.

Four years after becoming president, an assassin's bullet ended his life. Most people believe a lone Confederate sympathizer planned and killed the president. Nothing could be further from the truth. It took a massive amount of planning and preparation to kill the president. The main concern of the people plotting the assassination was to keep their identities unknown.

The people planning Lincoln's assassination obtained the services of a fanatic, John Wilkes Booth. His only task was to pull the trigger. Everything else was prepared for him.

Misinformation about Abraham Lincoln, from birth to death, is everywhere. Lincoln was a great intellect and a compassionate human being. The truth about his birth, poverty, and upbringing does not detract from his importance to our nation.

In this book, information about Abraham Lincoln, Jefferson Davis, and John Wilkes Booth comes from their writings, family, friends, and people living at the time.

Some of the family secrets are:
* Elizabeth Sparrow arranged a marriage between Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks after Nancy was raped and impregnated by her employer.
* Nancy Lincoln learned to hate Thomas Lincoln.
* Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis were brothers.
* Abraham Lincoln was in love with Matilda Edwards, not Mary Todd.
* Abraham jilted Mary Todd at their wedding.
* Mary manipulated James Shields into demanding a duel with Abraham.
* John Wilkes Booth was a married man.
* Jefferson Davis needed to keep his Confederate supporters from learning that he was once married to an Indian.
* Jefferson Davis persuaded John Wilkes Booth to kidnap Lincoln, but he did not want Lincoln killed.
* Vice-president Andrew Johnson convinced John Wilkes Booth to kill Lincoln.
* John Wilkes Booth was never inside the Garrett barn.
* John Wilkes Booth escaped to India.

This book explains why Lincoln, Davis, and Booth needed to keep secrets.

Three of Troy's shorter books, "Jefferson Davis's Brother: Abraham Lincoln," "Izola," and "They Wanted Lincoln Dead," have been combined to make "Lincoln, Davis, and Booth: Family Secrets."
Just reading this stuff exposes one to Creeping Brain Rot. I do admire the publishing gimmick, however.

There's at least one piece of this that I'm still stuck on and that's never been explained (and you can bet the ranch there's an "explanation"). What was JWB's fetish for the Raj? A starring role in Bollywood???
 
Yesterday afternoon I found myself in Lexington, KY. While looking for an antique mall to stroll through on my phone, I found that I was not far from the Mary Todd house. I immediately thought, "this is my chance to go right to the source and find out if Mary Todd tried to murder Lincoln or tried to marry him but was stood up at the alter." I was not the only one in the car. My companion brought up an alternative destination; the cocaine bear. Yes, that awful movie that I never saw was inspired by an actual event with actual cocaine and an actual bear. In real life it didn't play out at all like the movie I didn't see. So I was torn, go find out about the real Mary Todd or go find out about the real cocaine bear.

If you have been following these threads about Lincoln, Davis, Booth and Mary Todd and you are familiar with my posts and the research I do at times to solve questions that come up on this message board, then you can figure out which destination won.
 
After doing research, this is my original work. You can find many other writers with similar opinions.
For example, from the Lincoln Collection website,
After Mary Todd (to whom Lincoln had been engaged the year before) and Julia Payne wrote a similar letter, Shields demanded that the editor reveal the identity of the author. Upon learning that Lincoln had written the letters, Shields challenged him to a duel.
As a legitimate query, in seriousness have you ever questioned--if these many facts are true--why these were never discovered by anyone else?
 
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There is a set of data regarding the Lost Township letters and Lincoln's duel with James Shields. People reading that information can have different conclusions based on the same data set. As far as I know, I am the only one who concluded that Mary Todd plotted Abraham Lincoln's killing. If I can explain my thinking, I believe many will agree.

When Abraham Lincoln learned that the state would no longer accept paper money to pay the school tax, he wrote a lighthearted, sarcastic letter to the paper's editor criticizing the state's auditor. Lincoln signed the letter using the name Rebecca.

When the state auditor, James Shields, read the article in the newspaper, he was furious. He went to the editor demanding the name of the author. The editor told Shields that Abraham Lincoln wrote the letter. Shields had business out of town and put the matter on hold until he returned.

Six months earlier,

Abraham Lincoln failed to show up at his wedding. The Edwards were hosting the wedding at their mansion. After Lincoln jilted Mary, the Edwards refused to allow Lincoln in their home. All the major social events in town were at the Edwards mansion. When Lincoln couldn't attend, he must have felt like an outcast.

The Edward were getting their revenge on Abraham. Mary must have wanted revenge, also. When Mary read Rebecca's letter in the newspaper, she recognized Lincoln's writing style. A short time later, Mary was talking to Eliza Francis, the wife of the paper's editor. Eliza told Mary that James Shields was irate over the letter Lincoln wrote.

Mary had dated James Shields and knew he was a fighting man who wouldn't take anything derogatory from anyone. Mary wrote several letters to the editor criticizing James Shields and signed them Rebecca. My question is, why would she do this? The answer is revenge. She wanted to instigate a fight between James Shields and Abraham Lincoln.

James Shields challenged Lincoln to a duel. The purpose of a duel is to end the life of your opponent. If Mary didn't want Lincoln killed, all she would have to do was say she wrote the additional letters that infuriated Shields. Shields couldn't take his anger out on a woman. It would be a disgrace to fight a duel with a woman who had never held a gun in her life. There would be no one to fight. The duel would be over. Why didn't Mary admit to writing the letters?

It is obvious that Mary wanted Abraham killed.
Oh no - don't go there, I'm begging you. "Common sense is your enemy".

It appears that CivilWarTalk is not posting all my responses. Did you have anything to with it? Sometimes it seems like discussing Meth Gators and vampires are more appropriate for your audience. It would be nice to have an open, intelligent conversation.
 
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It appears that CivilWarTalk is not posting all my responses. Did you have anything to with it? Sometimes it seems like discussing Meth Gators and vampires are more appropriate for your audience. It would be nice to have an open, intelligent conversation.
My dear fellow contributor TCC,
might it be that your pipers and drummers are currently marching
even farther down the road into that vicious troll country?
 

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