Marching practice?

[Kentucky Derby Cavalier.]

Hey friends, I was curious about something. Did units that had alot of practice marching find it easier to march long distances? I remember hearing that after 1st Bull Run, McClellan reorganized the AOP, and one of his assignments was to have everyone practice marching.

In Ken Burn's documentary "The Civil War," one of the soldier is quoted as saying as "We marched, then marched again, then marched some more, then marched even more," or something like that. Did this serve as a good type of endurance training? I know a little about excersise science and generally the average person can gain a reasonable amount of stamina just walking places.

So, do you guys know? Thanks ahead of time. =)

 

[DixieRifles]

My opinion is that marching or "drill" helped develop discipline and built up their physical stamina. Drill was also used to teach maneuver on the battlefield, such as changing fronts and brigade formations etc.

 

[Kentucky Derby Cavalier.]

My opinion is that marching or "drill" helped develop discipline and built up their physical stamina. Drill was also used to teach maneuver on the battlefield, such as changing fronts and brigade formations etc.

Cool.

 

[DixieRifles]

Cool.

I was an ROTC Drill Team commander. Even that type of drill would build esprit de corps and discipline.

 

[Rhea Cole]

During his creation of the Army of the Cumberland from the 14th Army Corps he had inherited, Rosecrans kept his soldiers on the move. At regular intervals regiments & brigades went on combat patrols along the 50 mile wide front between his army & Bragg's. Not only did the constant movement of forces get them worked up to fighting trim, it positively kept Bragg's head on a swivel.

It was no secret that Rosecrans was going to attack. A look at the map in the Official Military Atlas of Middle Tennessee, it is not hard d to believe along with Bragg that Rosecrans was going to attack via Shelbyville on Bragg's right. Rosecrans made every effort to convince him that assumption was true. The troop movements etc even fooled Wiley ole N. B. Forrest.

The day before the jump off, Wilder's brigade moved 45 miles from the far right to the approach to Hoover's Gap. Due in part to Joseph Wheeler's incompetence, the fifty mile wide assault by the Army of the Cumberland that included a sweep around Bragg's right was initially believed to be just another instance of Rosecrans' constant combat patrolling.

This is an instance of using marching to both harden his army & bamboozle his opposition.

 

[Kentucky Derby Cavalier.]

During his creation of the Army of the Cumberland from the 14th Army Corps he had inherited, Rosecrans kept his soldiers on the move. At regular intervals regiments & brigades went on combat patrols along the 50 mile wide front between his army & Bragg's. Not only did the constant movement of forces get them worked up to fighting trim, it positively kept Bragg's head on a swivel.

It was no secret that Rosecrans was going to attack. A look at the map in the Official Military Atlas of Middle Tennessee, it is not hard d to believe along with Bragg that Rosecrans was going to attack via Shelbyville on Bragg's right. Rosecrans made every effort to convince him that assumption was true. The troop movements etc even fooled Wiley ole N. B. Forrest.

The day before the jump off, Wilder's brigade moved 45 miles from the far right to the approach to Hoover's Gap. Due in part to Joseph Wheeler's incompetence, the fifty mile wide assault by the Army of the Cumberland that included a sweep around Bragg's right was initially believed to be just another instance of Rosecrans' constant combat patrolling.

This is an instance of using marching to both harden his army & bamboozle his opposition.

Wow Mr.Cole, that's very interesting.

 

[Kentucky Derby Cavalier.]

I was an ROTC Drill Team commander. Even that type of drill would build esprit de corps and discipline.

I had ROTC in high school. good memories, Lol.

 

[R. Porter]

I think in my recent reading about the Battle of Gettysburg I came across at least one situation, if not more, where a commander was able to redeploy is men quickly to confront a danger from an unexpected quarter and thus prevent his position from being overrun. The implication was that if he had not drilled his men in marching maneuvers so thoroughly they never would have been able to reposition and drive off the attack. That put drilling in a different light for me. Besides the benefits of exercise and team building it allows you to fight a mid 19th century or earlier war more effectively by efficiently positioning you troops.

 

[Rhea Cole]

Wow Mr.Cole, that's very interesting.

Thank you

 

[Rhea Cole]

Wow Mr.Cole, that's very interesting.

Rosecrans did something similar during the weeks leading up to the Battle of Stones River. There are numerous letters home by Wheeler's videttes who believed that the advance from Nashville was just another combat patrol. In fact, it was the telegraph operator at Stewart's Creek station, 10 miles from Bragg's HQ that alerted him to the scope of the movement. The "fist" reported very heavy artillery fire echoing all around him.

A Texican wiled away the time observing a Union brigade enter Nolensville, a hamlet at the mouth of a pass through a long high ridge. The Texicans planned to ambush them in the long narrow gap. One of the wandering violent thunderstorms we get here shut down visibility for several hours. As the storm cleared off, the combat patrol that he described to his sister had magically turned into George Thomas' center wing of the 14th Army Corps.

The letter is very droll, he definitely played his shock at seeing a few hundred men morph into ten thousand & his galloping retreat into laughs for fhis sister. It is an example of Rosecrans' training scheme acting as a cover for the real advance.

 

[Old Soldier]

Out of period but still very relevant. My grandfather joined the Australian Imperial Force 14th (Victoria) Battalion in 1914 and I have been researching his experiences which included the War Diary of the Battalion. After they had complete their basic training* - physical strengthening, foot drill and arms/firing drills, they were put on a series of battalion marches starting with 10 miles and working up to a maximum of 25 miles in a day - the same as the British infantry at the time. These continued on their work-up to Gallipoli doing long 20-mile marches in Egypt. They were expected to do this without drop-outs for a 'series' of marches - day after day. They were expected to fight at the end of this marching.
*Basic training - about 6 weeks. Battalion training - another 10 to 20 weeks. Battalion training included company-strength ranges and fieldwork as well as battalion fieldwork.

The rate at this time was 18 minutes to the mile and would rest* an average of 10 minutes in every hour so an average of 3 miles to the hour . It does not sound like much, but remember that they were carrying Marching Order - all the personal kit, rifle and ammunition they could carry - to the tune of 60lbs. It had not/has not changed since Waterloo! All their issue kit was checked at the end of the day and woe betide anyone who had lost anything!
*'rest' included a longer feeding and watering stop, so a 'rest' would usually occur every 6 miles or so - 10 mins in every 2 hours.

 

[Kentucky Derby Cavalier.]

Out of period but still very relevant. My grandfather joined the Australian Imperial Force 14th (Victoria) Battalion in 1914 and I have been researching his experiences which included the War Diary of the Battalion. After they had complete their basic training* - physical strengthening, foot drill and arms/firing drills, they were put on a series of battalion marches starting with 10 miles and working up to a maximum of 25 miles in a day - the same as the British infantry at the time. These continued on their work-up to Gallipoli doing long 20-mile marches in Egypt. They were expected to do this without drop-outs for a 'series' of marches - day after day. They were expected to fight at the end of this marching.
*Basic training - about 6 weeks. Battalion training - another 10 to 20 weeks. Battalion training included company-strength ranges and fieldwork as well as battalion fieldwork.

The rate at this time was 18 minutes to the mile and would rest* an average of 10 minutes in every hour so an average of 3 miles to the hour . It does not sound like much, but remember that they were carrying Marching Order - all the personal kit, rifle and ammunition they could carry - to the tune of 60lbs. It had not/has not changed since Waterloo! All their issue kit was checked at the end of the day and woe betide anyone who had lost anything!
*'rest' included a longer feeding and watering stop, so a 'rest' would usually occur every 6 miles or so - 10 mins in every 2 hours.

That's very interesting. Wow "20 miles?" That's alot of foot work.

 

[Old Soldier]

That's very interesting. Wow "20 miles?" That's alot of foot work.

Try it with 60lbs on your back and a battalion in front and a battalion behind on a gravel road - for two or three days in a row.
(Wasn't really sure if you were being sarcastic. Try it sometime. I had to.)
BTW - During the German advance in August 1914, their infantry were doing over 40 miles a day. The Allies were retreating at a similar speed - in many cases fighting a rearguard action too!

 

[1st New Jersey Brigade]

I had ROTC in high school. good memories, Lol.

My son is in his 2nd year in ROTC as a 10th grader. Air Force ROTC. He loves it just would prefer it if it was Army. Different things to do within it. Rocketry, drill team, color guard, etc. The drill part of it has helped him in regard to his marching/drilling while reenacting. His ROTC just had a military ball at a military base in Northwest New Jersey about 1 month ago. Everyone attending had to be registered with the front gate of the base and parents had to show ID. They also do what they call morale events, they go bowling, play laser tag, watch outdoor movies, ETC. Yea, he enjoys it.

 

[Rhea Cole]

On March 30, 1863 one of Rosecrans' marching training / combat patrols fought an engagement that major Civil War historians as Ed Bearss considered a tipping point in the war. The Second Brigade Fifth Division of Rosecrans' army was ordered to make an armed reconnaissance of the area northwest of Murfreesboro. The combined arms brigade was under the command of Col Albert C Hall. Near the hamlet of Milton, Hall encountered John Hunt Morgan's 2,000 horsemen returning from an unsuccessful raid on Gallitan TN.

Hall, who had made several armed reconnaissance forays in that direction, deployed his 1,200 men & two cannon on prominent rocky cedar covered Vaughn's Hill. In his characteristic style, Morgan sent his men charging against Hall's blue coats. Repeated assaults, including an attack on the rear of Hall's position were beaten off.

On the southern horizon was Fort Transit, a signal station on top of Pilot Knob. With an uninterrupted 360 degree unobstructed view of the entire area, the signal it's could see & hear Hall's fight. A flagman signaled the 10 miles to the courthouse in Murfreesboro. A relief party was organized & dispatched.

By 4:30 Morgan had lost at least 200 men & Hall 50. Morgan was forced to leave his wounded & dead along with a large number of broken down horses behind as he retreated toward McMinnfield

The failed raid & drubbing by Hall marks the point where CSA cavalry's declining effectiveness crossed the ascending power of US cavalry. From that point on, CSA cavalry would have some bright spots, but the Union horsemen were on their was to achieving overwhelming superiority.

Many believe the horse killing raid on Galletin & bloody repulse by Hall was what drove Morgan to attempt to regain his fame by tilting at windmills in Ohio. Be that as it may, once again Rosecrans' policy of hardening his troops via combat patrols had paid an unexpected dividend.

You can visit the Battle of Milton / Vaughn's Hill by following HEY 96 northeast fro Murfreesboro. There is a historical marker. The countryside is remarkably untouched.

 

[DixieRifles]

Thank you

You or me? There are 2 Cole's here.

 

[Rhea Cole]

You or me? There are 2 Cole's here.

What is your halpogroup?

 

[CowCavalry]

During his creation of the Army of the Cumberland from the 14th Army Corps he had inherited, Rosecrans kept his soldiers on the move. At regular intervals regiments & brigades went on combat patrols along the 50 mile wide front between his army & Bragg's. Not only did the constant movement of forces get them worked up to fighting trim, it positively kept Bragg's head on a swivel.

It was no secret that Rosecrans was going to attack. A look at the map in the Official Military Atlas of Middle Tennessee, it is not hard d to believe along with Bragg that Rosecrans was going to attack via Shelbyville on Bragg's right. Rosecrans made every effort to convince him that assumption was true. The troop movements etc even fooled Wiley ole N. B. Forrest.

The day before the jump off, Wilder's brigade moved 45 miles from the far right to the approach to Hoover's Gap. Due in part to Joseph Wheeler's incompetence, the fifty mile wide assault by the Army of the Cumberland that included a sweep around Bragg's right was initially believed to be just another instance of Rosecrans' constant combat patrolling.

This is an instance of using marching to both harden his army & bamboozle his opposition.

Let me guess the topic of your next thread; the Confederates never drilled and wouldn't have known how to march without tripping all over themselves.

 

[CowCavalry]

What is your halpogroup?

??? his whatsatogroup??

 

[R. Porter]

??? his whatsatogroup??

They're checking to see if there is genetic evidence that they are both descended from the same Cole family.