M1842 smoothbore

[RSMorris]

Is there any way of knowing what companies, regiments, north or south, that were using M1842 smoothbores? On lark, trying to track down a set of initials to see where it leads, if anywhere.

 

[Cornpone and Molasses]

Needle in a haystack. Need more than initials unfortunately.

 

[RSMorris]

I wasn't asking anyone here to help track down initials. I was asking if anyone had any way to find out what regiments or companies used M1842 smoothbores. I also said it was a lark, but it's my time, not yours, laughing emoji Kyles, or ucv's.

 

[RickR]

Is there any way of knowing what companies, regiments, north or south, that were using M1842 smoothbores? On lark, trying to track down a set of initials to see where it leads, if anywhere.

"Arming The Suckers" by Ken Baumann will take care of Illinois. I have a copy but I'm not sure it's handy since we moved and most of my books are still in boxes.

 

[RSMorris]

"Arming The Suckers" by Ken Baumann will take care of Illinois. I have a copy but I'm not sure it's handy since we moved and most of my books are still in boxes.

Does that book mention units that had M1842 smoothbores?

 

[johan_steele]

Does that book mention units that had M1842 smoothbores?

Yes, there are other works out there but the amount of research would be rather daunting. Units often upgraded and even downgraded their arms as needed. The M1842 was seen as a better arm than most other smoothbores of the time but it was still a smoothbore. By mid 1863 most units had upgraded to rifled arms but they were still in use through the end of the war with rear echelon troops.

 

[RSMorris]

Yes, there are other works out there but the amount of research would be rather daunting. Units often upgraded and even downgraded their arms as needed. The M1842 was seen as a better arm than most other smoothbores of the time but it was still a smoothbore. By mid 1863 most units had upgraded to rifled arms but they were still in use through the end of the war with rear echelon troops.

Thank you, I know mine passed through southern hands cause it has the "Q' in front of the trigger guard. Also has a set of initials, I know could have been carved anytime but at least the first letter is not a W for William.... then it would be impossible

 

[RickR]

Does that book mention units that had M1842 smoothbores?

Indeed it does. It mentions the inventory of arms taken several times throughout the war so you can see the transition from smoothbore to rifle muskets. I do happen to know from the personal letters of Capitan Cromwell 10th Illinois that late in the war that unit had perhaps as many as two companies armed with Henry's and that never made it to the compilation of official inventory. Those letters are in the possession of a friend of mine and were handed to him by Cromwell's granddaughter after she sought the reenactment unit at a Bentonville event. She had family to pass them down to she God bless her she handed them to people dedicated to the memory of that unit. The 10th anchored Mower's left flank when he charged the 17th corps into Johnston's camp at Bentonville and the 64th Illinois was on the right flank. It is widely known that the 64th had Henry's.

 

[RSMorris]

Indeed it does. It mentions the inventory of arms taken several times throughout the war so you can see the transition from smoothbore to rifle muskets. I do happen to know from the personal letters of Capitan Cromwell 10th Illinois that late in the war that unit had perhaps as many as two companies armed with Henry's and that never made it to the compilation of official inventory. Those letters are in the possession of a friend of mine and were handed to him by Cromwell's granddaughter after she sought the reenactment unit at a Bentonville event. She had family to pass them down to she God bless her she handed them to people dedicated to the memory of that unit. The 10th anchored Mower's left flank when he charged the 17th corps into Johnston's camp at Bentonville and the 64th Illinois was on the right flank. It is widely known that the 64th had Henry's.

I willl check the book out. I know nothing about Henry's. Have this H.F. M1842 with a Q on the bottom, and just trying to find out when and where it may have been used.

 

[RickR]

I willl check the book out. I know nothing about Henry's. Have this H.F. M1842 with a Q on the bottom, and just trying to find out when and where it may have been used.

Yea that can be tough but fun as well. I have an 1855 Springfield with 5th NY carved in the stock and the name Brady carved on the inside of the cap box. Almost too cool to believe. Brady was a piano maker and the first casualty of that unit at 2nd Manassas which, I forget the specifics of how they defined the record for casualties, but I believe it was total unit loss in a battle, perhaps in a day or something. After their retreat only 60 men were standing. I will say the "Brady" is well executed as one would expect from a craftsman but I'd also say someone else carved the unit designation along with another name on the stock which matches the roster of the 5th NY as well. Who knows but it's fun to speculate.

 

[RSMorris]

I agree, keeps me busy and sane.

 

[limberbox]

Indeed it does. It mentions the inventory of arms taken several times throughout the war so you can see the transition from smoothbore to rifle muskets. I do happen to know from the personal letters of Capitan Cromwell 10th Illinois that late in the war that unit had perhaps as many as two companies armed with Henry's and that never made it to the compilation of official inventory. Those letters are in the possession of a friend of mine and were handed to him by Cromwell's granddaughter after she sought the reenactment unit at a Bentonville event. She had family to pass them down to she God bless her she handed them to people dedicated to the memory of that unit. The 10th anchored Mower's left flank when he charged the 17th corps into Johnston's camp at Bentonville and the 64th Illinois was on the right flank. It is widely known that the 64th had Henry's.

Good chance those Henry's were private purchase. Quite a number of Western regiments had members who purchased Henry's. Private purchases are not listed in the quarterly summary ordnance returns that are at the heart of Bauman's excellent book. The purpose of those returns was to track government-owned ordnance and ordnance stores.

RS Morris, If you have any interest in Iowa regiments, at least the Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth (until June '62) and Seventh Iowa Infantry regiments carried Model 1842's in some or all of 1861-62. The 17th, 34th and 35th Iowa were formed a little later but carried Model 1842's in 1862.

 

[RSMorris]

Good chance those Henry's were private purchase. Quite a number of Western regiments had members who purchased Henry's. Private purchases are not listed in the quarterly summary ordnance returns that are at the heart of Bauman's excellent book. The purpose of those returns was to track government-owned ordnance and ordnance stores.

RS Morris, If you have any interest in Iowa regiments, at least the Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth (until June '62) and Seventh Iowa Infantry regiments carried Model 1842's in some or all of 1861-62. The 17th, 34th and 35th Iowa were formed a little later but carried Model 1842's in 1862.

I am interested in any regiments that carried M1842's. Gives me a place to start tracking the initials. Thank you very much!

 

[limberbox]

I am interested in any regiments that carried M1842's. Gives me a place to start tracking the initials. Thank you very much!

That's a pretty big haystack. About 272,599 Model 1842's were fabricated between 1844 and 1855 at the two national armories.

At least 65,000 muskets made as percussion (i.e., model 1842's) were delivered to Federal arsenals in the South in 1860 on the orders of Secretary Floyd. Those largely became available to Southern forces in early 1861 as various states seceded and took over federal arsenals within their borders. Other smaller numbers of M. 1842's were already stored in some of those arsenals and additional muskets had been delivered to various southern states as part of their annual allotments under the Militia Act of 1808 (while the Ordnance Bureau preferred to deliver contractor-made Model 1816's (either in flint or altered to percussion) under the Act, some states insisted on and received the "latest, improved muskets" (i.e., model 1842's).

The Model 1842 was a significant Confederate arm as well as Northern, particularly during the first half of the war. So you have a large number of regiments to look at.

 

[RSMorris]

That's a pretty big haystack. About 272,599 Model 1842's were fabricated between 1844 and 1855 at the two national armories.

At least 65,000 muskets made as percussion (i.e., model 1842's) were delivered to Federal arsenals in the South in 1860 on the orders of Secretary Floyd. Those largely became available to Southern forces in early 1861 as various states seceded and took over federal arsenals within their borders. Other smaller numbers of M. 1842's were already stored in some of those arsenals and additional muskets had been delivered to various southern states as part of their annual allotments under the Militia Act of 1808 (while the Ordnance Bureau preferred to deliver contractor-made Model 1816's (either in flint or altered to percussion) under the Act, some states insisted on and received the "latest, improved muskets" (i.e., model 1842's).

The Model 1842 was a significant Confederate arm as well as Northern, particularly during the first half of the war. So you have a large number of regiments to look at.

thank you very much for the information, I'm retired, I have time.

 

[RickR]

Good chance those Henry's were private purchase. Quite a number of Western regiments had members who purchased Henry's. Private purchases are not listed in the quarterly summary ordnance returns that are at the heart of Bauman's excellent book. The purpose of those returns was to track government-owned ordnance and ordnance stores.

RS Morris, If you have any interest in Iowa regiments, at least the Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth (until June '62) and Seventh Iowa Infantry regiments carried Model 1842's in some or all of 1861-62. The 17th, 34th and 35th Iowa were formed a little later but carried Model 1842's in 1862.

Indeed and that's why you can't go on the government inventory alone. I think the government purchased a handful, less than 2,000 I believe but I don't know who ended up with those.