Collection M1816 Rifled with questions

[danielking1775]

Hi all, I recently purchased this Harper's ferry model 1816 made in 1825 as a gift for my father. I had a few questions. What really struck out to me is how original this gun seems, almost every part on the gun is marked with a "2". The gun has of course been converted. Here's what makes it different than my other m1816s, first it's rifled, I can't find a whole lot of information about these being converted with Rifling. Second the barrel length has me puzzled most I see are 42", this one is 41 and 5/8". Was it cut just a tad when converted? Maybe it was damaged at the end and cut? I just don't see bubba cutting such a small section from the end and leaving the bayonet lug. Thanks for all your help!

 

[UCVRelics]

Interesting piece. From the auction photos it does have the Belgian Cone conversion from the 1850's. Is it 69 cal?

 

[danielking1775]

Interesting piece. From the auction photos it does have the Belgian Cone conversion from the 1850's. Is it 69 cal?

Yes sir it sure is.

 

[danielking1775]

Interesting piece. From the auction photos it does have the Belgian Cone conversion from the 1850's. Is it 69 cal?

What's your thoughts something done at the arsenal during conversion? I don't see it being a civilian modification as original as everything else is do you?

 

[iron bender]

Thinking of the converted 42's and Hewes/Philips conversions. Wonder if this somehow fits in the mix. Aesthetically nice looking firearm. Nice gift to your dad!

 

[James Brenner]

From what I can see, it appears to be either an arsenal conversion or a Miles Greenwood conversion. Neither modified the breech and both rifled, but did not add rear sights, to both M1816s and M1842s. The actual conversion from flintlock was most likely done at an arsenal in the1850s and, if Greenwood rifled it, he did so in 1861 for the state of Ohio. The cupped ramrod was part of the rifling process. Annoyingly, Greenwood never marked his work, so it's nearly impossible to ID an unsighted Greenwood. I don't have the Arsenal numbers handy, but Greenwood rifled about 27,000 muskets, both sighted and unsighted.

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[James Brenner]

One other thing, because of the thin walls of M1816 barrels, it's not uncommon to see cracks/chips at the muzzle of rifled conversions. It's quite possible that is what happened here and was trimmed back.

In an extreme example, I have a M1816 in which the muzzle was cut back almost two inches. The stock was remortised to accommodate the front barrel band keeper and the front sight put back on to accommodate a bayonet. This one has a Greenwood sight and it was likely done at his satellite shop in Louisville in early 1862.

 

[captaindrew]

I have a similar piece that was rifled and cut back at the muzzle to just before the front sight. It has Ohio stamps on it.. I picked up a bayonet that matched it perfectly and displayed with the bayonet fixed you don't notice it.

 

[James Brenner]

I have a similar piece that was rifled and cut back at the muzzle to just before the front sight. It has Ohio stamps on it.. I picked up a bayonet that matched it perfectly and displayed with the bayonet fixed you don't notice it. View attachment 532170View attachment 532171

That looks a lot like mine. Even if the muzzles was chipped and if the musket was otherwise still functional, the demand for firearms early in the war dictated that shortening the barrel was completely acceptable.

For a bit more background on these things, Greenwood received a contract in October 1861 for "rifling and percussioning" captured Confederate muskets. That's why he set up shop in Louisville. One of the few (only?) distinguishing marks of this type of Greenwood is the checkering on the hammer. Compared to arsenal conversions, it's rather crude. Greenwood, at one time, sought to get extra hammers from the Springfield, but Riley turned him down.

 

[James Brenner]

Sigh. Ripley, not Riley. As Yosemite Sam might say, "Oh, I hates autocorrect".

 

[danielking1775]

Wow! Thats why I love this forum! Thank you all so much I think the mystery is solved.

 

[rebracer]

Great musket ...ah I mean rifle. Seriously though great conversion, I always say conversions are so overlooked and can really be a great priced purchase.

I will also add that based on the study of the Lookout Mountain cave guns, shortened barrels cut back from muzzle/crown damage were more common that alot may think.