"Lincoln's International Influence"

[John Hartwell]

Just watched Paul Quigley's excellent presentation on this subject.
"Paul Quigley talked about how Abraham Lincoln's image has been adapted internationally for different purposes since his death in 1865. Mr. Quigley described the malleability of Lincoln's image for various causes, such as antislavery societies, fledgling republics, and nations attempting to unify after their own internal strife."
Well worth the 45 minutes.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?325966-3/discussion-president-abraham-lincolns-international-influence

"In life he was a great American. He is no longer so. He is one of those great figures that, there are very few in history, that lose their nationality in death. They are no longer Greek, Hebrew, American … they belong to mankind. … Lincoln doesn't belong to this country alone, he belongs to the world." Paul Quigley

 

[brass napoleon]

Or, in other words... now he belongs to the ages.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

"Of all the great national heroes and statesmen of history Lincoln is the only real giant. Alexander, Frederick the Great, Caesar, Napoleon, Gladstone and even Washington stand in greatness of character, in depth of feeling and in a certain moral power far behind Lincoln. Lincoln was a man of whom a nation has a right to be proud; he was a Christ in miniature, a saint of humanity, whose name will live thousands of years in the legends of future generations. We are still too near to his greatness, and so can hardly appreciate his divine power; but after a few centuries more our posterity will find him considerably bigger than we do. His genius is still too strong and too powerful for the common understanding, just as the sun is too hot when its light beams directly on us.

"If one would know the greatness of Lincoln one should listen to the stories which are told about him in other parts of the world. I have been in wild places, where one hears the name of America uttered with such mystery as if it were some heaven or hell. I have heard various tribes of barbarians discussing the New World, but I heard this only in connection with the name of Lincoln. Lincoln as the wonderful hero of America is known by the most primitive nations of Asia."
Excerpt from Russian writer Leo Tolstoy's interview published February 7, 1909 in the New York World newspaper

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

That's so eloquent, unsurprisingly so, since it is Tolstoy. Wish so much Lincoln was still respected. I mean certainly with his death so long ago memories will fade but with the significance, the magnitude of his ' deeds ', how singular he was as a man you'd think we'd keep the respect around. Every, single time there's a car commercial, or sofa or mattress with someone dressed up representing Abraham Lincoln, selling this dreck I think of that. If someone did that using say, Reagan? There would be heck to pay.

I don't know. Free enterprise notwithstanding our Presidents belong to this nation- Lincoln of particular significance to a large percentage. This article shows he is a world figure too. How dare companies usurp them for profit, superimpose meaning on these men they never intended or gave permission for? I think these leaders should be declared ' hands off ' for commercial purposes.

 

[John Hartwell]

"Of all the great national heroes and statesmen of history Lincoln is the only real giant. Alexander, Frederick the Great, Caesar, Napoleon, Gladstone and even Washington stand in greatness of character, in depth of feeling and in a certain moral power far behind Lincoln. Lincoln was a man of whom a nation has a right to be proud; he was a Christ in miniature, a saint of humanity, whose name will live thousands of years in the legends of future generations. We are still too near to his greatness, and so can hardly appreciate his divine power; but after a few centuries more our posterity will find him considerably bigger than we do. His genius is still too strong and too powerful for the common understanding, just as the sun is too hot when its light beams directly on us.

"If one would know the greatness of Lincoln one should listen to the stories which are told about him in other parts of the world. I have been in wild places, where one hears the name of America uttered with such mystery as if it were some heaven or hell. I have heard various tribes of barbarians discussing the New World, but I heard this only in connection with the name of Lincoln. Lincoln as the wonderful hero of America is known by the most primitive nations of Asia."
Excerpt from Russian writer Leo Tolstoy's interview published February 7, 1909 in the New York World newspaper

The entire Tolstoy interview is here. It has a lot about Lincoln's place in the world's memory that is more down to earth.

 

[brass napoleon]

"Of all the great national heroes and statesmen of history Lincoln is the only real giant. Alexander, Frederick the Great, Caesar, Napoleon, Gladstone and even Washington stand in greatness of character, in depth of feeling and in a certain moral power far behind Lincoln. Lincoln was a man of whom a nation has a right to be proud; he was a Christ in miniature, a saint of humanity, whose name will live thousands of years in the legends of future generations. We are still too near to his greatness, and so can hardly appreciate his divine power; but after a few centuries more our posterity will find him considerably bigger than we do. His genius is still too strong and too powerful for the common understanding, just as the sun is too hot when its light beams directly on us.

"If one would know the greatness of Lincoln one should listen to the stories which are told about him in other parts of the world. I have been in wild places, where one hears the name of America uttered with such mystery as if it were some heaven or hell. I have heard various tribes of barbarians discussing the New World, but I heard this only in connection with the name of Lincoln. Lincoln as the wonderful hero of America is known by the most primitive nations of Asia."
Excerpt from Russian writer Leo Tolstoy's interview published February 7, 1909 in the New York World newspaper

I'm sorry but that's just over the top. Lincoln the man was a far more interesting (and realistic) character than Lincoln the "Christ in miniature" or Lincoln the "saint of humanity". He is worthy of a great deal of respect and admiration without all the deification.

 

[John Hartwell]

I'm sorry but that's just over the top. Lincoln the man was a far more interesting (and realistic) character than Lincoln the "Christ in miniature" or Lincoln the "saint of humanity". He is worthy of a great deal of respect and admiration without all the deification.

It says much more about Tolstoy , and about Lincoln's memory in the world than about Lincoln himself.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

It says much more about Tolstoy , and about Lincoln's memory in the world than about Lincoln himself.

I agree that Tolstoy was a little bit over the top with his veneration of Lincoln but the excerpt ties in with the OP since it not only expresses his thoughts of Lincoln but shows -- in the complete NY World interview of Tolstoy you provided -- that even a people in one of the remotest areas of the earth knew who he was and also idolized him.

 

[Lost Cause]

"Of all the great national heroes and statesmen of history Lincoln is the only real giant. Alexander, Frederick the Great, Caesar, Napoleon, Gladstone and even Washington stand in greatness of character, in depth of feeling and in a certain moral power far behind Lincoln. Lincoln was a man of whom a nation has a right to be proud; he was a Christ in miniature, a saint of humanity, whose name will live thousands of years in the legends of future generations. We are still too near to his greatness, and so can hardly appreciate his divine power; but after a few centuries more our posterity will find him considerably bigger than we do. His genius is still too strong and too powerful for the common understanding, just as the sun is too hot when its light beams directly on us.

"If one would know the greatness of Lincoln one should listen to the stories which are told about him in other parts of the world. I have been in wild places, where one hears the name of America uttered with such mystery as if it were some heaven or hell. I have heard various tribes of barbarians discussing the New World, but I heard this only in connection with the name of Lincoln. Lincoln as the wonderful hero of America is known by the most primitive nations of Asia."
Excerpt from Russian writer Leo Tolstoy's interview published February 7, 1909 in the New York World newspaper

 

[John Hartwell]

View attachment 69539

Ahh, the Apotheosis of Lincoln! Isn't it curious that in that print there are no weeping black figures -- just one Indian and a bevy of whites ... including, of course, Liberty and the angels.

 

[KansasFreestater]

I'm sorry but that's just over the top. Lincoln the man was a far more interesting (and realistic) character than Lincoln the "Christ in miniature" or Lincoln the "saint of humanity". He is worthy of a great deal of respect and admiration without all the deification.

Well, Tolstoy was over the top by the end of his life. As for "Christ in miniature," I think Jesus must have had a sense of humor, but I doubt it was as crude and corny as Lincoln's!

 

[KansasFreestater]

The entire Tolstoy interview is here. It has a lot about Lincoln's place in the world's memory that is more down to earth.

I used to be a Tolstoy freak -- yet I don't remember ever seeing this. Thank you so much for sharing it! Great find!

 

[Lost Cause]

Ahh, the Apotheosis of Lincoln! Isn't it curious that in that print there are no weeping black figures -- just one Indian and a bevy of whites ... including, of course, Liberty and the angels.

...or the figures of any of the hundreds of thousands of soldiers who perished.

 

[matthew mckeon]

They were busy in Jeff Davis's painting.

We hear about America being 'the Great Satan' and so forth in parts of the world, but Lincoln is a major symbol in the positive view America holds in many places.

 

[John Hartwell]

They were busy in Jeff Davis's painting.

We hear about America being 'the Great Satan' and so forth in parts of the world, but Lincoln is a major symbol in the positive view America holds in many places...

... not counting a few of our unreconstructed members.

 

[KansasFreestater]

The entire Tolstoy interview is here. It has a lot about Lincoln's place in the world's memory that is more down to earth.

Best thing about this link, in my opinion, is the link within it to the Library of America anthology from which the Tolstoy piece was taken: a compilation of writings on Lincoln by 95 different writers from 1860 to the present day. Looks like a treasure!
The Lincoln Anthology: Great Writers on His Life and Legacy from 1860 to Now

 

[CSA Today]

... not counting a few of our unreconstructed members.

 

[John Hartwell]

Best thing about this link, in my opinion, is the link within it to the Library of America anthology from which the Tolstoy piece was taken: a compilation of writings on Lincoln by 95 different writers from 1860 to the present day. Looks like a treasure!
The Lincoln Anthology: Great Writers on His Life and Legacy from 1860 to Now

Note: that book is available new at Amazon.com for less than half the retail price ... and used for under $3!

 

[5fish]

Lincoln was influenced by the 1848 revolutionaries... You little is known about his international views...

Link to a site it is a long read but worth it ...

Snippet... Labor

Amid all the turbulence of a burgeoning Civil War, Abraham Lincoln wanted it to be known that he was unsettled by the rising assumption "that labor is available only in connection with capital; that nobody labors unless somebody else, owning capital, somehow by the use of it induces him to labor. This assumed, it is next considered whether it is best that capital shall hire laborers, and thus induce them to work by their own consent, or buy them and drive them to it without their consent. Having proceeded so far, it is naturally concluded that all laborers are either hired laborers or what we call slaves. And further, it is assumed that whoever is once a hired laborer is fixed in that condition for life."

That false construct could not be allowed to take hold in a free country, argued the president. It must be understood, he concluded: "Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

To be sure, Lincoln related this observation to the wrenching questions posed by the Civil War. "A few men own capital, and that few avoid labor themselves, and with their capital hire or buy another few to labor for them. A large majority belong to neither class—neither work for others nor have others working for them. In most of the Southern States a majority of the whole people of all colors are neither slaves nor masters, while in the Northern a large majority are neither hirers nor hired."

Snippet...

The failure of the 1848 revolts, and the brutal crackdowns that followed, led many leading European radicals to take refuge in the United States, and Lincoln's circle of supporters would eventually include some of Karl Marx's closest associates and intellectual sparring partners, including Joseph Weydemeyer and August Willich. Weydemeyer, who maintained a regular correspondence with Marx and Engels

Snippet...

Lincoln did not merely invite the '48ers to join his campaigns, he became highly engaged with their causes. As Lohne notes, "Lincoln was paying attention to these revolutionaries." In his hometown of Springfield, the former congressman rallied support for revolutionary movements in Europe, particularly the Hungarian revolt of Lajos Kossuth. Lincoln's name led the list of signatories on calls for public meetings to discuss the Hungarian revolt that appeared in the Illinois State Register and the Illinois Journal in January 1852. A week later, Lincoln helped to pen a resolution declaring that "we, the American people, cannot remain silent" about "the right of any people, sufficiently numerous for national independence, to throw off, to revolutionize, their existing form of government, and to establish such other in its stead as they may choose."

Snippet...

Lincoln's resolution argued:

That the sympathies of this country, and the benefits of its position, should be exerted in favor of the people of every nation struggling to be free; and whilst we meet to do honor to Kossuth and Hungary, we should not fail to pour out the tribute of our praise and approbation to the patriotic efforts of the Irish, the Germans and the French, who have unsuccessfully fought to establish in their several governments the supremacy of the people.

Snippet...

Eulogizing his political hero Henry Clay in 1852, Lincoln would make frequent reference to Clay's international interests and involvements, declaring: "Mr. Clay's efforts in behalf of the South Americans, and afterward, in behalf of the Greeks, in the times of their respective struggles for civil liberty are among the finest on record, upon the noblest of all themes; and bear ample corroboration of what I have said was his ruling passion—a love of liberty and right, unselfishly, and for their own sakes." Lincoln invoked the struggles of the European revolutionaries and denounced "oppression of any of its forms…crowned-kings, money-kings, and land-kings." he declared: "Equality in society alike beats inequality, whether the latter be of the British aristocratic sort or of the domestic slavery sort."

Link it is a long read... https://isreview.org/issue/79/reading-karl-marx-abraham-lincoln

 

[KansasFreestater]

Lincoln was influenced by the 1848 revolutionaries... You little is known about his international views...

Link to a site it is a long read but worth it ...

Snippet... Labor

Amid all the turbulence of a burgeoning Civil War, Abraham Lincoln wanted it to be known that he was unsettled by the rising assumption "that labor is available only in connection with capital; that nobody labors unless somebody else, owning capital, somehow by the use of it induces him to labor. This assumed, it is next considered whether it is best that capital shall hire laborers, and thus induce them to work by their own consent, or buy them and drive them to it without their consent. Having proceeded so far, it is naturally concluded that all laborers are either hired laborers or what we call slaves. And further, it is assumed that whoever is once a hired laborer is fixed in that condition for life."

That false construct could not be allowed to take hold in a free country, argued the president. It must be understood, he concluded: "Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

To be sure, Lincoln related this observation to the wrenching questions posed by the Civil War. "A few men own capital, and that few avoid labor themselves, and with their capital hire or buy another few to labor for them. A large majority belong to neither class—neither work for others nor have others working for them. In most of the Southern States a majority of the whole people of all colors are neither slaves nor masters, while in the Northern a large majority are neither hirers nor hired."

Snippet...

The failure of the 1848 revolts, and the brutal crackdowns that followed, led many leading European radicals to take refuge in the United States, and Lincoln's circle of supporters would eventually include some of Karl Marx's closest associates and intellectual sparring partners, including Joseph Weydemeyer and August Willich. Weydemeyer, who maintained a regular correspondence with Marx and Engels

Snippet...

Lincoln did not merely invite the '48ers to join his campaigns, he became highly engaged with their causes. As Lohne notes, "Lincoln was paying attention to these revolutionaries." In his hometown of Springfield, the former congressman rallied support for revolutionary movements in Europe, particularly the Hungarian revolt of Lajos Kossuth. Lincoln's name led the list of signatories on calls for public meetings to discuss the Hungarian revolt that appeared in the Illinois State Register and the Illinois Journal in January 1852. A week later, Lincoln helped to pen a resolution declaring that "we, the American people, cannot remain silent" about "the right of any people, sufficiently numerous for national independence, to throw off, to revolutionize, their existing form of government, and to establish such other in its stead as they may choose."

Snippet...

Lincoln's resolution argued:

That the sympathies of this country, and the benefits of its position, should be exerted in favor of the people of every nation struggling to be free; and whilst we meet to do honor to Kossuth and Hungary, we should not fail to pour out the tribute of our praise and approbation to the patriotic efforts of the Irish, the Germans and the French, who have unsuccessfully fought to establish in their several governments the supremacy of the people.

Snippet...

Eulogizing his political hero Henry Clay in 1852, Lincoln would make frequent reference to Clay's international interests and involvements, declaring: "Mr. Clay's efforts in behalf of the South Americans, and afterward, in behalf of the Greeks, in the times of their respective struggles for civil liberty are among the finest on record, upon the noblest of all themes; and bear ample corroboration of what I have said was his ruling passion—a love of liberty and right, unselfishly, and for their own sakes." Lincoln invoked the struggles of the European revolutionaries and denounced "oppression of any of its forms…crowned-kings, money-kings, and land-kings." he declared: "Equality in society alike beats inequality, whether the latter be of the British aristocratic sort or of the domestic slavery sort."

Link it is a long read... https://isreview.org/issue/79/reading-karl-marx-abraham-lincoln

Lincoln is endlessly fascinating. His driving passion was human dignity, and that included the dignity of work.

Like all great minds, Lincoln's mind might seem paradoxical to those who don't think outside the usual boxes. While the comments above appear critical of large-scale capitalists, Lincoln himself was a renowned corporate lawyer in Illinois, representing railroads and equipment manufacturers. It just goes to show that in America, the Old World categories do not quite apply. Just as "left" and "right" mean very different things in American politics than they do in European politics, so too do other European constructs get a special twist on this side of the Atlantic.

Lincoln, being one of the most insightful people our nation has ever advanced to a position of high leadership, perceived things that in lesser minds get mangled and skewed since such ideas do not fit neatly into our usual pigeonholes. No wonder there are more books written about Lincoln than about any other American!