Lincoln Lincoln's Faith

[gem]

 

[frontrank2]

As he says, Lincoln was never a member of any church. But IMHO, he was more spiritual than this video leads us to believe.

 

[major bill]

Does not going to church make one unreligious? This brings into discussion the concept of one being spiritual while not being religious.

 

[frontrank2]

I looked up this quote from Lincoln, which should offer a little bit of insight into his faith ( or lack there of ).
That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or any denomination of Christians in particular.
--July 31, 1846 Handbill Replying to Charges of Infidelity

 

[JAGwinn]

Lincoln did have a Bible and he read it at least enough to quote passages from scripture. The Lincoln Bible does still exist and made its appearance in the inauguration ceremony of the current sitting President of the United States.

 

[huskerblitz]

I looked up this quote from Lincoln, which should offer a little bit of insight into his faith ( or lack there of ).
That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or any denomination of Christians in particular.
--July 31, 1846 Handbill Replying to Charges of Infidelity

Sounds a lot like me. Lincoln probably would fall into the category of 'spiritual but not religious'.

 

[hughes]

We surely have all noticed in, "but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures" that President Lincoln does not say he believes in the truth of the scriptures. He says that he has not denied them.

 

[DBF]

I was impressed by his insight into his "faith" with the following quote that, (according to Shelby Foote), was found by one of Lincoln's secretaries: "The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be wrong. God can not be for, and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party - and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose. I am almost ready to say this is probably true - that God wills this contest and wills that it shall not end yet. By His mere quiet power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds."

 

[hughes]

A guide in Washington, D. C., I don't remember where, commented that when President Lincoln attended services he stood in the back of the church for the entire service. Is there a reference for that anywhere?

 

[KennethN]

William Herndon was Lincoln's law partner and one of his closest friends. The following are quotes by Herdon:

"As to Mr. Lincoln's religious views. . . . He was, in short, an infidel . . . a theist. He did not believe that Jesus was God, nor the Son of God. He was a fatalist and denied the freedom of the will. Mr. Lincoln told me a thousand times, that he did not believe the Bible was the revelation of God, as the Christian world contends."

"No man had a stronger or firmer faith in Providence-God-than Mr Lincoln, but the continued use by him late in life of the word God must not be interpreted to mean that he believed in a personal God. In 1854 he asked me to erase the word God from a speech which I had written and read to him for criticism because my language indicated a personal God, whereas he insisted no such personality ever existed."

John Nicolay, Lincoln's secretary made this statement,
"Mr. Lincoln did not, to my knowledge, in any way change his religious views or beliefs from the time he left Springfield till his death."

 

[John Hartwell]

Elizabeth L. Comstock, describing her interview with Lincoln late in 1862, concludes:

"the President shook hands with me very cordially; he stood some minutes with my hand grasped in both of his, and thanked me for my visit, and spoke something to this effect, that he entirely agreed with me in my sense of the over-ruling power and supremacy of our Heavenly Father. 'Perhaps there is no position like mine, and no man living better able than myself to recognise the necessity of Divine guidance, Divine grace, or to see the hand of the Lord in the great events that are now transpiring.'"

Life and Letters of Elizabeth L. Comstock, Caroline Hare, ed, Philadelphia, 1895, p. 181

 

[nicholasraphael]

I think I have to agree with the verdict given by many above: that he seems to have been a deeply "spiritual" man without any interest in or affiliation with any "organised religion."

Nonetheless, I am not convinced that his belief in the transcendence of God's will beyond the knowledge of mankind is necessarily a sign of agnosticism - such a belief could just as plausibly be a product of a personal reverence for God, and an unwillingness to see him appropriated for political purposes (like Mandela in South Africa), rather than of categorical disbelief in Him. After all, a devout theist could just as easily believe in the same "distance" between the human and divine wills as an agnostic, and hence, Lincoln's expression of such a "distance" is not in itself terribly revealing. Additionally, the Christian-ite culture and context of his time empowered the Bible with an ability to serve as a medium through which to effectively communicate across different social demographics, meaning (as many have identified above) that Lincoln's quoting of scripture in itself is not indicative of his personal spirituality, but is rather a reflection of the society with which he sought to engage.

Of particular relevance to this discussion, which I have pondered frequently, is his second inaugural address, which not only adopts a sermon-like tone, but also explores the ethics of a just war from a Christian perspective, which seems distinctive in its themes and language from his earlier theological expressions. I feel that retrospective discussion all too frequently conflate the different phases and maturities of an individual's life, and can easily blur the evolution and maturity of their thoughts and beliefs. This is why I think that all of his religious statements should be interpreted in the context of each other, and that neither his early stated disagreements with the church, nor his later avowal of Christian-like principles, should be the sole lenses through which the views of his life should be interpreted. Instead, I see a trend across the evolution of his statements over time which seem to indicate the thawing of his attitudes towards religion, to the point where the religious views of the 1830's Lincoln seem markedly different to those of the 1860's Lincoln. As cross-sections revealing the intricate consciousness of a complicated man, these statements we have been able to glean from the fabric of history serve as valuable reference points in tracing his theological evolution away from agnosticism to deism. Even though they do not testify to a man who has accepted Jesus as his personal Lord and Saviour, the subtle nuances that exist demonstrate, in my opinion, his evolution away from agnosticism and to an "understanding," if not wholehearted acceptance, of Christianity.

(Additionally, Lincoln's "martyrdom" and elevation to the position of a secular saint has politicised his personal faith in a way that makes his views a highly contested battleground for those who seek to appropriate his legacy for their own particular agendas, a contest which existed in the aftermath of his assassination, and I believe, has contaminated whatever accuracy may have existed in the sources beyond remedy. Besides, at the end of the day, a person's views are theirs alone, and can never be known by another with complete certainty.)

 

[Bruce Vail]

I think it's fair to say that Lincoln's religious beliefs were transformed by personal experience.

The early Lincoln admitted to being an atheist. But that was a very different Lincoln than the one we saw in his Second Inaugural Address, which is loaded with Christian mysticism.

Overseeing a vast war where hundreds of thousands of your fellow Americans are killed will alter your perspective.

 

[Bruce Vail]

Author Stephen Mansfield has produced a whole book on this subject:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1480506427/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Mansfield is sort of one of those right-wing religious cranks, but I think he is sincere in wanting to understand Lincoln's religion, and how it effected his actions as a war leader. I saw him speak about this book on C-Span a while back, and it was pretty interesting.

 

[Pat Young]

Does not going to church make one unreligious? This brings into discussion the concept of one being spiritual while not being religious.

He was notorious as a youngster for mocking preachers, so perhaps some anti-clericalism.

 

[AshleyMel]

My husband and I have had many conversation about this very subject!

 

[Bruce Vail]

My husband and I have had many conversation about this very subject![/QUOTE

Who won?

 

[nicholasraphael]

I also feel as though the death of his son, his inexperience at the head of a nation during it's darkest crisis, his own probable mental illness, his wife's issues, and the death of his fiancee and witnessing the suffering of the war could also have been important catalysts in his theological evolution away from atheism

 

[DixieRifles]

that Lincoln's quoting of scripture in itself is not indicative of his personal spirituality, but is rather a reflection of the society with which he sought to engage.

So true. We have to view him thru the society of that time. In those days, the Bible was used as a classroom book to teach children reading, history and poetry. Thru continued exposure, a student would learn not just specific verses but also basic doctrines of the Christian faith that was part of the accepted norm of the society.
In other words, you can receive head knowledge without ever obtaining heart knowledge.

Excellent post, nicholasraphael.

 

[bdietzler73]

Author Stephen Mansfield has produced a whole book on this subject:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1480506427/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Mansfield is sort of one of those right-wing religious cranks, but I think he is sincere in wanting to understand Lincoln's religion, and how it effected his actions as a war leader. I saw him speak about this book on C-Span a while back, and it was pretty interesting.

I read this book. I thought it was very good (your are right about Mansfield). I am looking and researching more about Lincoln and religion as well. Just trying to get a better understanding and learn more.