Lincoln (2012)

[K Hale]

OK -- who's seen it? I attended a 9:55am showing this morning and came away very impressed. Daniel-Day Lewis was outstanding as Lincoln. Sally Field made a terrific non-caricatured Mary Todd. Tommy Lee Jones was a delight as Thaddeus Stevens and gets some of the film's best lines. Actually everyone in the film was good, from David Straithairn as Seward down to the boy who plays Tad. There were a dozen familiar faces in bit roles; I don't know most of their names but everyone fit their role very well.

The guy who played Grant was just OK, and Lee was basically an extra. The only bad example of casting was that they used a pregnant Arabian mare to play Traveller. WTF? OK, I'll overlook it.

As has been said, it is NOT a hagiography... It makes clear the chicanery, bribes, lying, and intimidation, and back room "compromises" that led to the 13th amendment getting passed. Git 'er dun, boys...

I predict that Oscars will be flying in all directions.

 

[diane]

Saw it yesterday and it was good - going back for seconds because I know I missed a whole bunch! I think it's the best thing Spielberg has done since ET. Usually a political drama can wait for Netflix or something and not lose much, but this is that rare bird that needs to be seen on the big screen! I give it a couple dozen thumbs up! ... etc.

p s
Yeah, a pregnant Traveller was very, very weird but I just figured Spielberg is no horse person! (And possibly hasn't been to a farm very often...)

 

[K Hale]

Funny thing is when the scene comes where you see Travellerette being led around in a circle, my first thought was that it was Mary Todd's horse (she and Abe had just been in a prior scene, I think) and that we were about to see some kind of riding scene with the Lincolns. Then Lee walks out of the house!!

I'll need to see it again. I took a bathroom break right when Stevens was giving the smackdown to the Ohio guy. Hated to realize I had missed most of a Stevens scene. I wish I'd waited a few minutes and missed the hospital scene instead...

 

[Lee]

I have been waiting to hear someone here give us their opinion of the movie. So far it sounds pretty good. Still I want to hear more.......

 

[K Hale]

I forgot to mention the guy who played Stanton. He had that REMF down pat.

 

[Pvt.Shattuck]

I thought the movie was very good and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Daniel Day Lewis performance was extraordinary-what an amazing actor. He really brought Lincoln to life. Tommy Lee was also great, as usual.
There were a few annoying Spielberg-ian anachronisms such as a colored soldier, reminiscent of "Glory", speaking disrespectfully to the President and Mary Todd complaining about how unfairly history will view her. The political operatives hired to collect Democratic votes made wonderful comic relief.
Not being a horse person, I completely missed the pregnant Traveller. I was very glad not to see any fat, gray re-enactors as soldiers. However, way too much soldier long hair-don't the costume people ever look at period images?
I thought the final scene of the Second Inaugural Address after Lincoln's death was entirely anti-climactic and should have been edited out, however well acted.

 

[K Hale]

There were a few annoying Spielberg-ian anachronisms such as a colored soldier, reminiscent of "Glory", speaking disrespectfully to the President

The guys at the beginning? What did they say that you felt was disrespectful?

I thought the final scene of the Second Inaugural Address after Lincoln's death was entirely anti-climactic and should have been edited out, however well acted.

I thought it made a nice coda as far as Lincoln's legacy. Binding up the nation's wounds, widows and orphans and whatnot. However, another review mentioned that it would've been cool to have added the part where Lincoln visits Richmond, goes to the White House of the Confederacy, drinks a glass of water, and leaves. I'd have liked it if any one of the Mary Todd scenes had been replaced with this. Particularly Mary Todd vs. Stevens at the party; it seemed like that went on a little long.

 

[Lee]

I forgot to mention the guy who played Stanton. He had that REMF down pat.

Chuckle......

 

[atom]

I saw it today and while I thought it was decent I didn't love it. The movie should have been called "The 13th Amendment." I didn't feel I got to know Lincoln enough as I hoped to. The pacing was odd. Long dialogues took up a lot of time in scenes that could have been edited down while important parts of history were quickly shown with little effort. Daniel Day Lewis and Tommy Lee Jones were great. They brought realism to Lincoln and Stevens. I felt many of the other characters over acted, which is typical for a Civil War era film, but it always makes them feel like fictional characters instead of actual historical figures.

There were scenes that could have been iconic that were absent from the film. I would have loved to see Lincoln sit at the abandoned desk of Jefferson Davis. It would have touched viewers to see newly free blacks surrounding Lincoln as we see up close a desolate Richmond. I didn't think my expectations were too high but maybe they were. The limiting of the film's focus to just the 13th amendment weakened the film. Of course this is just my humble opinion and encourage others to share theirs.

 

[Lee]

I thought the movie was very good and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Daniel Day Lewis performance was extraordinary-what an amazing actor. He really brought Lincoln to life. Tommy Lee was also great, as usual.
There were a few annoying Spielberg-ian anachronisms such as a colored soldier, reminiscent of "Glory", speaking disrespectfully to the President and Mary Todd complaining about how unfairly history will view her. The political operatives hired to collect Democratic votes made wonderful comic relief.
Not being a horse person, I completely missed the pregnant Traveller. I was very glad not to see any fat, gray re-enactors as soldiers. However, way too much soldier long hair-don't the costume people ever look at period images?
I thought the final scene of the Second Inaugural Address after Lincoln's death was entirely anti-climactic and should have been edited out, however well acted.

Thank you scenes like you described drive me through the roof when I know something like that never happened but were inserted by someone to actually make non histoy lovers actually believe a black federal soldier would speak like that to the POTUS. And a pregnant Traveller is unforgivable IMO.

 

[Pvt.Shattuck]

It wasn't so much the words as the tone and attitude- direct personal confrontation with the President about the Army pay differential, after the issue had already been resolved, I believe. Inappropriate to your C in C. I also thought Lincoln sitting in Davis' chair, the crowd of freed Richmond slaves kneeling and Lincoln lifting them up would have made great cinema, and true to history as well.

 

[K Hale]

Thank you scenes like you described drive me through the roof when I know something like that never happened but were inserted by someone to actually make non histoy lovers actually believe a black federal soldier would speak like that to the POTUS. And a pregnant Traveller is unforgivable IMO.

Now I'm sorry I mentioned preggo Traveller. It's really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, it was just startling and seems like an easy enough thing to do correctly.

I don't recall anything disrespectful that either of the black soldiers with speaking roles said to Lincoln. One of them did point out that he thought it was unfair that blacks were paid less than white soldiers and could not receive commissions.

 

[K Hale]

It wasn't so much the words as the tone and attitude- direct personal confrontation with the President about the Army pay differential, after the issue had already been resolved, I believe. Inappropriate to your C in C.

Did you notice that the other soldier tried to get him to shut up?

I also forgot to mention that I wish they had not decided to use fake names for the representatives who voted No on the amendment.

 

[AndyHall]

I forgot to mention the guy who played Stanton. He had that REMF down pat.

Bruce McGill. Played D-Day in Animal House. He's made a good living playing SoBs for many years.

 

[Lee]

I saw it today and while I thought it was decent I didn't love it. The movie should have been called "The 13th Amendment." I didn't feel I got to know Lincoln enough as I hoped to. The pacing was odd. Long dialogues took up a lot of time in scenes that could have been edited down while important parts of history were quickly shown with little effort. Daniel Day Lewis and Tommy Lee Jones were great. They brought realism to Lincoln and Stevens. I felt many of the other characters over acted, which is typical for a Civil War era film, but it always makes them feel like fictional characters instead of actual historical figures.

There were scenes that could have been iconic that were absent from the film. I would have loved to see Lincoln sit at the abandoned desk of Jefferson Davis. It would have touched viewers to see newly free blacks surrounding Lincoln as we see up close a desolate Richmond. I didn't think my expectations were too high but maybe they were. The limiting of the film's focus to just the 13th amendment weakened the film. Of course this is just my humble opinion and encourage others to share theirs.

Thank you for your honest review. I think I will wait for it to come on TV. I liked your opinion that it should have been named the 13th amendment.

 

[K Hale]

Oh and Hal Holbrook as Preston Blair -- epic.

EDIT: The guy who played Alexander Stephens -- fabulous. I keep thinking of people in small roles who brought so much to the film.

 

[Pvt.Shattuck]

Did you notice that the other soldier tried to get him to shut up?

I also forgot to mention that I wish they had not decided to use fake names for the representatives who voted No on the amendment.

Yeah, it was the Morgan Freeman -Denzel routine from "Glory" again. The Denzel character time traveled from the future to confront poor Matthew Broderick, and this guy to confront Lincoln. Very satisfying to the modern liberal sensibility and a total anachronism.

 

[K Hale]

Thank you for your honest review. I think I will wait for it to come on TV. I liked your opinion that it should have been named the 13th amendment.

The movie's title is affecting your decision whether or not to see it?

 

[Lee]

The movie's title is affecting your decision whether or not to see it?

Sorry but I believe you missed my point KHale. I am certain I will see it one day but when the poster said in his opinion the movie's title should have been "the 13th amendment" and since the movie limited itself primarily to the 13th amendment it weakened the film spoke volumes to me. I find Lincoln to be a facinating man and I fear this film is a tad to thick on drama deliberately written to portray Lincoln's primary passionate goal the last year of his life was to end slavery which I am certain did occupy a significant % of the man's thought processess but having said that I believe getting reelected and ending/winning the war occupied a much greater percentage of his thoughts and concerns in the last year of his life. I fear the movie is a tad too PC and scenes like the one describing a black federal soldier speaking disrespectfully to President Lincoln further confirms my worst fears about this film. The short scenes I have seen on TV show Lincoln losing his temper and speaking more like John Brown about slavery than the man I feel aged 20 years in four suffering pain for every American life lost in the war. I believe Lincoln felt he would rather die than see the Republic split in two. Hollywood can not resist taking license and a perfect example was in the excellent film "Glory" where near the end the 54th Mass. actually breached Battery Wagner's defenses and were moving to the center of the fort bayoneting and shooting defenders all along the way to finally confront artillery aimed at the firing position of the Confederates on the wall as if the defenders knew and feared being over run or their line being broken. We know nothing like that happened as surely as we know a black federal soldier never spoke disrespectfully to President Lincoln. Seeing scenes like that are like watching movies about the civil war where soldiers fire winchester repeating rifles and colt peacemaker revolvers. In other words we know it just didn't happen that way.

 

[Bryan_C]

Sorry but I believe you missed my point KHale. I am certain I will see it one day but when the poster said in his opinion the movie's title should have been "the 13th amendment" and since the movie limited itself primarily to the 13th amendment it weakened the film spoke volumes to me. I find Lincoln to be a facinating man and I fear this film is a tad to thick on drama deliberately written to portray Lincoln's primary passionate goal the last year of his life was to end slavery which I am certain did occupy a significant % of the man's thought processess but having said that I believe getting reelected and ending/winning the war occupied a much greater percentage of his thoughts and concerns in the last year of his life. I fear the movie is a tad too PC and scenes like the one describing a black federal soldier speaking disrespectfully to President Lincoln further confirms my worst fears about this film. The short scenes I have seen on TV show Lincoln losing his temper and speaking more like John Brown about slavery than the man I feel aged 20 years in four suffering pain for every American life lost in the war. I believe Lincoln felt he would rather die than see the Republic split in two. Hollywood can not resist taking license and a perfect example was in the excellent film "Glory" where near the end the 54th Mass. actually breached Battery Wagner's defenses and were moving to the center of the fort bayoneting and shooting defenders all along the way to finally confront artillery aimed at the firing position of the Confederates on the wall as if the defenders knew and feared being over run or their line being broken. We know nothing like that happened as surely as we know a black federal soldier never spoke disrespectfully to President Lincoln. Seeing scenes like that are like watching movies about the civil war where soldiers fire winchester repeating rifles and colt peacemaker revolvers. In other words we know it just didn't happen that way.

I saw it last night with my History Club (we watch period movies and historical documentaries and then discuss them) and I didn't think the USCT cavalry soldier spoke disrespectfully to the President at all. He spoke to Lincoln about the disparity in pay between Black soldiers and White soldiers; acknowledged that issue had been resolved; but then wanted to know when Blacks would be allowed to become Army officers. I didn't see where he was "disrespectful" in his conversation or tone in any way. As a soldier putting his life on the line, I believe the man had a right to ask that question. And as commander-in-chief, I believe the President had a responsibilty to address it. Besides, I've seen plenty of movies with Lincoln in them for years where the main character(s) or common people approach Lincoln and ask "When is (this or that) going to happen?" So though I question if that scene was something that actually happened I don't see it as any different than any other time in other films.

I also disagree with you that Lincoln's efforts to see the 13th Amendment passed were inaccurately shown as more important than getting reelected and winning the war. The film is set in early 1865, so the 1864 election is no longer an issue. And the whole point of the movie is to show that ending slavery and Union victory are equally important and the drama presents a scenario where both may not be possible together.

I thought the movie was excellent. Do you what feel is best for you but if the scene where he spoke to both Black and White soldiers and they quoted the Gettysburg Address was not accurate (and I'm thinking a lot of artistic license was at work there), I see it as a small price to pay for a very good and dramatic movie.