Lincoln (2012)

[Brenal]

Just finished watching Lincoln and I loved it. It may not be a history lesson for the purist but as a 19th century "West Wing" drama it will be hard to beat. Daniel Day-Lewis deserves all the accolades going, as does Tommy-Lee Jones.

 

[FourLeafClover]

How did you see it Brenal ? It's listed as coming out on 25/1/13 at my local Odeon.

 

[Brenal]

Ummmm!!!!

 

[FourLeafClover]

Ummmm!!!!

Ahhh O.K. I think its a case of Yo-Ho Ho and a bottle of rum ???

 

[Brenal]

No, easy really, I'm staying with a friend just outside HartfordCT. New England winters are supposed to be fierce but apparently there is more snow back home.

 

[unionblue]

I think the principal reason those scenes were in the film were as narrative. As was mentioned elsewhere in this or a related thread, the story was primarily about the legislation and politics surrounding the passage of the 13th Amendment and, specifically, Lincoln's role in it, but the screenwriters and filmmakers were confronted with the quandary that a movie so deeply concerned with the rights of African-Americans (as we would term them today) had no really logical place for African-Americans in it (Mrs. Keckley et. al. notwithstanding, but the government was very much a whites-only club); so they had to do some hard work to interject conversation and exposition about slaves, freedmen, and free blacks into the narrative.

I actually wondered a bit about the actual chances of Gardner letting fragile glass plates out of his sight, but it did make for an interesting exchange between the characters of Lincoln and Tad. (We must not forget that this is not a documentary, but a dramatization.)

I would agree... politically correct endeavor and not a single black person in my theater to view it with. I'm kind of wishing Spike Lee would have taken on this project.

BTW... CDVs' may have been believable.

Yet we have documentation and solid evidence to support the fact that blacks were in the gallery of the House of Representatives when the 13th amendment was passed.

Sometimes we are simply proven wrong in our unsupported opinions and we should be honest enough to recognize when we are wrong, in spite of what we feel about what is "politically correct" or what we might feel would be "quandary" for the film makers.

The simple fact remains, the gallery in the House had blacks in it at the time of the passage of the 13th Amendment.

Perhaps the movie actually had researchers and advisors who knew of that historical fact?

Unionblue

 

[K Hale]

Here is a clue. Ask anyone who shoots large format or glass plate negatives and see if they would lend their negatives out to a kid... even if the kid's father is the President. If you have any idea of the risk and process involved in photography during the ACW you should understand why this didn't happen.

Where does it say Gardner loaned them to Tad? Maybe he loaned them to Lincoln and Tad got his mitts on them. Lincoln was shown as a very indulgent father where Tad is concerned. Look how he was allowed to play with the official map, even to the point of setting it on fire.

You're reading too much into a lot of this.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

The simple fact remains, the gallery in the House had blacks in it at the time of the passage of the 13th Amendment.

Perhaps the movie actually had researchers and advisors who knew of that historical fact?

Unionblue

Oh, stipulated. I was thinking of the scene with Lincoln, Tad, and the Gardner glass-plate negatives.

 

[unionblue]

Oh, stipulated. I was thinking of the scene with Lincoln, Tad, and the Gardner glass-plate negatives.

Mark,

Yeah, that one is a dry hole for me also. Just couldn't dig up any sources for it at all when I did my search of Tad Lincoln.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[101combatvet]

Where does it say Gardner loaned them to Tad? Maybe he loaned them to Lincoln and Tad got his mitts on them. Lincoln was shown as a very indulgent father where Tad is concerned. Look how he was allowed to play with the official map, even to the point of setting it on fire.

You're reading too much into a lot of this.

Yes.... it's a movie.

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

It serves the purpose dramatically and for the sake of exposition, though, and is a pretty good scene to boot.

I'm reminded of the movie Patton in that it was not so much a bio-pic as a character study. Not everything in Patton happened the way it was shown in the movie; some things were put together from multiple incidents, some things were simplified for the movie audience, etc.; most noticeably, his famous speech at the very beginning of the film is actually pieced together from various speeches he gave, plus he's speaking as if he hasn't gone overseas yet, but he's already wearing his four general's stars. It's ahistorical insofar as it never happened, but it gives an immediate understanding into the character (or at least the face the character chooses to reveal to the public, as is hinted at later on in the movie).

 

[unionblue]

Yes.... it's a movie.

Yes, it is, with some accurate depictions (like blacks in the gallery of the House and celebrations in the streets of Washington, D.C., after the passage of the 13th Amendment), some assumptions (like Stevens sleeping with his house keeper) and some things we'll never know if it was true or not because there is no evidence to support it (Lincoln listening to both white and black Union soldiers reciting his Gettysburg address back at him).

It IS a movie, which one is free to enjoy or dislike, according to one's own likes or dislikes.

But assumptions should not be made on mere opinion, whether such are in a movie or posted on a forum about a movie.

But where would be the fun in that?

Unionblue

 

[FourLeafClover]

No, easy really, I'm staying with a friend just outside HartfordCT. New England winters are supposed to be fierce but apparently there is more snow back home.

yes Brenal its icy on t he footpaths cos they are last to get gritted. I am not too worried i will be in New Zealand middle of next month, it's Summer there. Hope to see themovie next wweek.

 

[KLSDAD]

Finally saw it..... great movie!! I read Team of Rivals when it came out. I can't figure out why the move makers stated that it was based in part on that book over and above all the other historical info on the subject.

 

[unionblue]

Finally saw it..... great movie!! I read Team of Rivals when it came out. I can't figure out why the move makers stated that it was based in part on that book over and above all the other historical info on the subject.

KLSDAD,

Yeah, I got the book too and had the same question you did when I saw the movie.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

The way I understand it is that Spielberg either read Team of Rivals or talked to Doris Kearns Goodwin as she was writing it and said, "I want to make the movie." Then they had to figure out how to make a reasonable-length movie out of a rather long book (and one that was not only about Lincoln, but also a lot about Seward, Chase, and Edward Bates). They had to keep narrowing their focus... The end result, I think, is really more "inspired by" than "based on" Team of Rivals.

 

[101combatvet]

The way I understand it is that Spielberg either read Team of Rivals or talked to Doris Kearns Goodwin as she was writing it and said, "I want to make the movie." Then they had to figure out how to make a reasonable-length movie out of a rather long book (and one that was not only about Lincoln, but also a lot about Seward, Chase, and Edward Bates). They had to keep narrowing their focus... The end result, I think, is really more "inspired by" than "based on" Team of Rivals.

Psssst....

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111810/tony-kushners-unacknowledged-source-lincoln#

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

Psssst....

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/111810/tony-kushners-unacknowledged-source-lincoln#

I'm just saying what Spielberg said in an interview. [[ shrug ]]

 

[101combatvet]

I'm just saying what Spielberg said in an interview. [[ shrug ]]

I'm surprised to hear he bought the rights... usually they take the cheapest direct route.

 

[WalterPrescott]

Now I have high expectations on this one! . Ps What a lovely community.