Discussion lees' address to the congregation

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#1
did y'all know genl. lee in a address to the congregation at his college chapel, said that had he known the north was going to back on their word[at appomatox] that he would have sent the army to the hills to fight on in geurrilla warfare. estimated it would have lengthened the war by five more years or so. object being maybe the north would've grown tired of the war and resulting in a more favorable end for the south.
 

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#3
ok it will take some time, I just remember reading this,and it was in the chapel at his university where he was chancellor. key to the address to the congregants was the fact that he [lee] felt that the north had gone back on their word/signed agreement at appomatox. specifically where they weren't supposed to bother/harrass have recriminations against any southerner for their actions of fighting in this war. I will try to find this address again tho. take care, god bless!
 
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#7
did y'all know genl. lee in a address to the congregation at his college chapel, said that had he known the north was going to back on their word[at appomatox] that he would have sent the army to the hills to fight on in geurrilla warfare. estimated it would have lengthened the war by five more years or so. object being maybe the north would've grown tired of the war and resulting in a more favorable end for the south.
It sounds to me like this quote.

“Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in my right hand.”
~ Robert E. Lee

(1807-1870) General-in-Chief of the Confederate States army
To Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (September 1870), as quoted in The Life and Letters of Robert Lewis Dabney, pp. 497-500
 

unionblue

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#8
It sounds to me like this quote.

“Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in my right hand.”
~ Robert E. Lee

(1807-1870) General-in-Chief of the Confederate States army
To Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (September 1870), as quoted in The Life and Letters of Robert Lewis Dabney, pp. 497-500
Tis quote has been called into question that Lee ever uttered it, but I see that is dredged up time and again, without any verification.

This has been discussed before on this forum and many of our members know it. It is in the same catagory as the so-called US Grant quote of him never drawing his sword if the war was about slavery.

Utterly worthless and unable to prove.

So, @clebeurne , I await your actual source for Lee's supposed utterance in church.

Unionblue
 
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#9
Tis quote has been called into question that Lee ever uttered it, but I see that is dredged up time and again, without any verification.

This has been discussed before on this forum and many of our members know it. It is in the same catagory as the so-called US Grant quote of him never drawing his sword if the war was about slavery.

Utterly worthless and unable to prove.

So, @clebeurne , I await your actual source for Lee's supposed utterance in church.

Unionblue
Rubbish. I see no reason to dismiss it.

"At this stage of the conference, General Lee rose from his chair; Rosecrans took the hint. He filed out, and the big Confederates, one behind the other, after him.​
"Said Stockdale, I, being the little man in the farther corner, was the last to approach the door. General Lee had given a very polite good-morning to each man as he passed out; as I said to him, 'good-morning,' he gently closed the door before me, keeping the door-knob in his left hand, and said to me, as follows :​
" 'Governor Stockdale, before you leave, I wish to give you my thanks for brave, true words. You know. Governor, what my position is. Those people (his uniform term for the Yankees) choose, for what reason I know not, to hold me as a representative Southerner ; hence, I know they watch my words, and if I should speak unadvisedly, what I say would be caught up by their speakers and newspapers, and magnified into a pretext for adding to the load of oppression they have placed upon our poor people; and God knows. Governor, that load is heavy enough now ; but you can speak, for you are not under that restraint, and I want to thank you for your bold, candid words.'​
"Again, said Governor Stockdale, I thought he would dismiss me; but he still held the door closed, and after a time he resumed and uttered these words : 'Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse ; no, sir, not by me.' Then, with rising color, throwing back his head like an old war-horse, he added these words, 'Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand.' He then dropped his head, and, with a sad look, added : 'This, of course, is for your ear only. My friend, good-morning;' and with that he opened the door and I took my leave.​
"I said to Governor Stockdale, 'Sir, this narrative is of the greatest historical importance; don't you think so?' He replied, yes, he thought so, and had been advised by several friends to give it permanent historical form. I added my request that he would do so. Governor Stockdale replied that he was now an old man, an infirm man, with failing eyesight, heavily laden with the burdens of old age and infirmity, and supposed that he would never do anything more about it; but that he had given some facts to several old friends and intimates in DeWitt county, Texas, where he resided.​
" 'I said to him : 'Governor, these are the reasons why I regard these incidents as of even grand historical importance. General Lee was no original secessionist ; he was no politician ; he was personally a man of great moderation and wisdom. In the months immediately following the war, he had struggled very hard to reconcile himself and his fellow-citizens to their defeat. He was also an eminent Christian; and in August, 1870, he well knew that he was a dying man, for his intimate friends were aware that he understood the symptoms of his decaying health, and knew that death was not far off. But now, after five years' experience of subjugation and reconstruction, this great martyr, this wise, grand old man, looking eternity in the face, forms this deliberate estimate of the illegality, the perjury and cruelty, the mischievousness of the reconstruction measures ; that had he foreknown clearly that the results of submission would be such, he would have preferred to die with his face to the foe. Impartial history will surely form the same estimate concerning this conclusion of the unconstitutional war of coercion and of the subjugation of the Southern States by other States, pretending to be their equals.' " - The Life and Letters of Robert Lewis Dabney, pp 499-500
 

unionblue

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#10
Rubbish. I see no reason to dismiss it.

"At this stage of the conference, General Lee rose from his chair; Rosecrans took the hint. He filed out, and the big Confederates, one behind the other, after him.​
"Said Stockdale, I, being the little man in the farther corner, was the last to approach the door. General Lee had given a very polite good-morning to each man as he passed out; as I said to him, 'good-morning,' he gently closed the door before me, keeping the door-knob in his left hand, and said to me, as follows :​
" 'Governor Stockdale, before you leave, I wish to give you my thanks for brave, true words. You know. Governor, what my position is. Those people (his uniform term for the Yankees) choose, for what reason I know not, to hold me as a representative Southerner ; hence, I know they watch my words, and if I should speak unadvisedly, what I say would be caught up by their speakers and newspapers, and magnified into a pretext for adding to the load of oppression they have placed upon our poor people; and God knows. Governor, that load is heavy enough now ; but you can speak, for you are not under that restraint, and I want to thank you for your bold, candid words.'​
"Again, said Governor Stockdale, I thought he would dismiss me; but he still held the door closed, and after a time he resumed and uttered these words : 'Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse ; no, sir, not by me.' Then, with rising color, throwing back his head like an old war-horse, he added these words, 'Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand.' He then dropped his head, and, with a sad look, added : 'This, of course, is for your ear only. My friend, good-morning;' and with that he opened the door and I took my leave.​
"I said to Governor Stockdale, 'Sir, this narrative is of the greatest historical importance; don't you think so?' He replied, yes, he thought so, and had been advised by several friends to give it permanent historical form. I added my request that he would do so. Governor Stockdale replied that he was now an old man, an infirm man, with failing eyesight, heavily laden with the burdens of old age and infirmity, and supposed that he would never do anything more about it; but that he had given some facts to several old friends and intimates in DeWitt county, Texas, where he resided.​
" 'I said to him : 'Governor, these are the reasons why I regard these incidents as of even grand historical importance. General Lee was no original secessionist ; he was no politician ; he was personally a man of great moderation and wisdom. In the months immediately following the war, he had struggled very hard to reconcile himself and his fellow-citizens to their defeat. He was also an eminent Christian; and in August, 1870, he well knew that he was a dying man, for his intimate friends were aware that he understood the symptoms of his decaying health, and knew that death was not far off. But now, after five years' experience of subjugation and reconstruction, this great martyr, this wise, grand old man, looking eternity in the face, forms this deliberate estimate of the illegality, the perjury and cruelty, the mischievousness of the reconstruction measures ; that had he foreknown clearly that the results of submission would be such, he would have preferred to die with his face to the foe. Impartial history will surely form the same estimate concerning this conclusion of the unconstitutional war of coercion and of the subjugation of the Southern States by other States, pretending to be their equals.' " - The Life and Letters of Robert Lewis Dabney, pp 499-500
Not rubbish, garbage, by Dabney and every other wanna be connected to Lee.

It's been called into serious question and lacks authentication.

@Cleburne says he thought this was said in front of a church congregation. Let's see if he can produce documentation for such.
 
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#11
Not rubbish, garbage, by Dabney and every other wanna be connected to Lee.

It's been called into serious question and lacks authentication.
I've read the threads. I don't know how one would authenticate a private conversation between two men, so it seems to me you either believe it or you don't based on other criteria. I personally have no problem believing that Lee felt this way.
 

unionblue

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#12
I've read the threads. I don't know how one would authenticate a private conversation between two men, so it seems to me you either believe it or you don't based on other criteria. I personally have no problem believing that Lee felt this way.
'I know you don't but as I have said and see before on this forum, these words supposedly by Lee, cannot be confirmed.

Again, the OP of this thread lists an entirely different setting for these words. Why not wait and see if he can produce a source before contaminating the thread with another unsupported story?
 
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#13
'I know you don't but as I have said and see before on this forum, these words supposedly by Lee, cannot be confirmed.

Again, the OP of this thread lists an entirely different setting for these words. Why not wait and see if he can produce a source before contaminating the thread with another unsupported story?
Making a connection to a similar sounding story is hardly "contaminating" the thread. Indeed, if Lee said something similar on another occasion, it strengthens the case for both.
 

7thWisconsin

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#14
No. Actually runs the risk of conflating 2 stories: one a private conversation and one a public address. One may have happened; they both may have happened, or neither may have happened as recorded. Memoirs are already secondary sources; if that one was published after Lee's death, I would consider it suspect in that Lee himself couldn't confirm or deny it.
Lee was a soldier, and soldiers do not study to surrender and lose, but to triumph and win. Too much "kindly Marse Robert" myth can turn a good man into a plaster saint who wouldn't express bitterness, disappointment or anger. Might he express bitterness? Sure. Did he in those words? Jury's out.
 
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#15
Tis quote has been called into question that Lee ever uttered it, but I see that is dredged up time and again, without any verification.

This has been discussed before on this forum and many of our members know it. It is in the same catagory as the so-called US Grant quote of him never drawing his sword if the war was about slavery.

Utterly worthless and unable to prove.

So, @clebeurne , I await your actual source for Lee's supposed utterance in church.

Unionblue
workin on it. have been gone. had to attend an out of state graduation. been out of pocket so to speak
 

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