Lead the way! (#4) Answer!

That's a good call, the tree line, but a failure to realize, tactics then differ from now so maybe it seemed reasonable to be in the meadow.
Wonder how this'll work out.
Fix bayonets, cold steel... Lol
Agreed. I didn't get that from modern tactics that we were trained in though, in all honesty. I just consider it common sense as someone who's lived their entire life in similar terrain. Settlers, including Daniel Boone, in this area used similar tactics to protect themselves from Indians 100 years prior to the CW. You are completely right on the differences in SOP from that time and now without a doubt though. Just a few years before, doing anything other than standing in the open in columns blasting away at each other in volleys was considered cowardly and less than civilized.
 
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That very well could have been the case but judging from the other info given in the OP,
Its possible if not likely they just got caught with their pants down by fast sunset in a mountainous wooded area. I do look forward to hearing the outcome of this scenario because at this point there really isn't a fail safe answer for the unfortunate series of events leading to this situation, in my opinion.

Probably, but he didn't mention how much time he had to decide, it was just stated that they set up camp in the meadow. For the scenario, I think it'll be ok to assume there was enough time to setup in another location in the vicinity of the meadow, including whether to be on high or low ground.

How many men are in a detachment?

I wish I had a specific answer, but imagine a very small scouting party. About 20-25 troops after dividing the original detachment of 60 men. Sorry for the oversight in not mentioning that in the OP. The report is vague in such details.

Bushwhackers usually attacked in very small groups of 15 or less, so scouting parties this size were not uncommon.


I've been checking in occasionally on my phone to clarify things as needed. I'll post the real outcome this evening when I have access to my computer.
 
Probably, but he didn't mention how much time he had to decide, it was just stated that they set up camp in the meadow. For the scenario, I think it'll be ok to assume there was enough time to setup in another location in the vicinity of the meadow, including whether to be on high or low ground.



I wish I had a specific answer, but imagine a very small scouting party. About 20-25 troops after dividing the original detachment of 60 men. Sorry for the oversight in not mentioning that in the OP. The report is vague in such details.

Bushwhackers usually attacked in very small groups of 15 or less, so scouting parties this size were not uncommon.


I've been checking in occasionally on my phone to clarify things as needed. I'll post the real outcome this evening when I have access to my computer.

Okay gotcha.
It is getting dark, so you decide to set up camp in a meadow near the creek
That was the sentence that made me think they were short on time when they made the choice to go with the field.
 
Okay gotcha.
That was the sentence that made me think they were short on time when they made the choice to go with the field.

Yeah, water for the ponies. Alls I know, it was Yankee bushwhackers that killed a distant relative... No discrimination though lol! That was then, this is now.
Back on topic. I can see doing a false camp, but again, I'm thinking that's a more modern tactic. It was SOP to set up one hide site, then T/L would go find an alternate. Then we'd move to the alternate at dark. But again, that's a more modern tactic.
The big issue is numbers, and from where. Personally, I'd be hesitant to split my already small force up.
Curiosity is getting the best of me. Like to see the outcome!!!
 
Even then men knew how to fight this type of fight. It is well documented. This detachment was poorly led.

So: Hide your force on the highest wooded ground with the mounts well secured and guarded in a slightly separate area.
Cold camp. 50% alert.

You would never had to make this call if you were never approached or even discovered.
And surely there WAS a friendly code word. And I am tickled you started this @4th-MSM but I have to say about the decisions so far......-------duh!
 
Good idea Fulton, except one thing, don't count on the leader exposing his men. As "common sense" was stated earlier in the treeline (smart thinking by the way), a good leader won't go pell mell into the "camp". He "should" send out scouting parties to get lay of camp, where's sentries located, horses picketted, etc. BUT, who knows, right? I know if I was bushwhachin' I'd be lookin' fer sum experienced injun fighters....but.... Beggars caint be choosy...
 
Attacking an enemy camp of superior force, at night without testing the waters etc. before hand to me would be like walking up to a sleeping grizzly bear in the dark and swift kicking it with everything you have right under its cute little tail then standing there waiting to see how it reacts. Its reaction would be the same as the camped soldiers; the last things you'd ever see for the rest of your short life. IF these bushwhackers were smart and knew you were there as stated earlier they'd be 50 miles away by now. Its not smart its desperate and suicidal if anything. Those are real dangerous people. Anyone willing to be a bushwhacker should be considered in this way before hand and measures should be taken to avoid the situation, not deal with it after the fact. I can't help but to think that any good commander would know this and be prepared. All I can think is ignorance or natural selection to be honest. Man I can't wait to hear how this turns out, lol. :playfull:
 
Anyone willing to be a bushwhacker should be considered in this way before hand and measures should be taken to avoid the situation, not deal with it after the fact. I can't help but to think that any good commander would know this and be prepared.

@M.Warren , yeah, what you said. This company or platoon commander had about 500 people in his area that could have planned better. I hope it's nobody famous because I will make a lot of folks mad!
 
Im waiting to hear something like H.J. kilpatrick or Kill-cavalry as his men referred to him, lol. I know the bushwhackers are Union but one can hope! :D

"I know that Kilpatrick is a hell of a damned fool, but I want just that sort of man to command my cavalry on this expedition."~ T. Sherman
 
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Even then men knew how to fight this type of fight. It is well documented. This detachment was poorly led.

So: Hide your force on the highest wooded ground with the mounts well secured and guarded in a slightly separate area.
Cold camp. 50% alert.

You would never had to make this call if you were never approached or even discovered.
And surely there WAS a friendly code word. And I am tickled you started this @4th-MSM but I have to say about the decisions so far......-------duh!

Lol! You and I must have been responding at the same time! I missed yours until now!!! 100% agree!
Yes, I failed to mention earlier, poor leadership. Good call!!! Unless I missed something, who splits their forces into small Dets while in heavily infested enemy territory! (Says the former reconner! Lol)
 
Wow, I didn't realize the real result would be so anxiously awaited! :D

Now, the real outcome!

Here is the quick(er) version, the full report can be read farther below:

The officer from whose prospective this scenario is based on is Captain L. E. Whybark, commanding a detachment of the 5th Missouri State Militia Cavalry. After the approaching force did not identify themselves, the troops under Whybark's command opened fire on the intruders. This caused the unidentified troops to quickly scatter in every direction, leaving behind four horses and their firearms but escaping otherwise unscathed. None of the militiamen were able to hit their targets in the dark. However, the identity of the late night visitors was not discovered until the next day when both groups met once again. The scouting party under Whybark was the first to discover the others. In the daylight, the unknown group had the look of bushwhackers, many were dressed in civilian clothes. Whybark formed his troops thirty yards from the others, but they held their fire. After Whybark's small command had formed, they had been discovered, however no shots were exchanged. Whybark advanced and called out to the potentially hostile group (who numbered around 20 men). This time both groups identified themselves to the other. It was then that it was discovered that the unidentified force from the previous night was actually a friendly unit - another scouting party sent out by a detachment of the 3rd Missouri State Militia, who was operating to the northeast. Their number was overestimated, that night the 3rd MSM scouts had actually consisted of only 10 men, who came upon Whybark's camp. It is unknown why they failed to identify themselves when ordered. The horses and equipment "captured" the night before was returned to the ill-equipped 3rd MSM and the two forces departed. I have yet to find a report stating if Whybark found the bushwhackers that they were trailing.

Overall, not the proudest moment of the militiamen.

Here is the full report:

JULY 18-21, 1864.- Scout in Shannon County, Mo.

Report of Captain Levi E. Whybark, Fifth missouri State Militia Cavalry.

HDQRS DETACH. FIFTH CAV. MISSOURI STATE MILITIA,

Salem, Mo., July 22, 1864.


SIR: I just returned from down in Shannon County. I started Monday night with sixty men to capture some bushwhackers reported to be on Rock Creek, about sixty- five miles from Salem, or at what is known as the Hay Hollow, in the southeast corner of Shannon County, where they were herding their stolen horses. I traveled all night Monday night. Tuesday I got to the place abut 2 o'clock, but they had left an few days previous with their stock. They left some eight young horses which they could not get off with, which we brought in. They were stolen from Union men in this county, which I gave to them. I then camped and scouted around there until morning. Found no rebels, but plenty of signs. Wednesday morning I divided my men in three squads; sent one squad up Jack's Fork and Current and Gladen Valley, under Sergeant Neff; one squad up Current to the mouth of Big Sinking,then up it to the head,under Lieutenant Ringer. I and Lieutenant Fisher took the other squad, coming up Brushy Creek and then Big Creek to the head. I camped Wednesday night on head of Big Creek. There I heard fourteen rebels had passed up the evening before. We camped in a meadow. Abut 1 o'clock some dozen or so came on us. Would not make themselves known. We fired a few rounds into them and they scattered in every direction, leaving four horses and equipments, and their arms. The brush was so thick and it dark we did not kill any.

Next morning, Thursday, I followed on the divide in the southeast corner of Dent County, some twenty- five miles from Salem. There I came across some twenty of the Third Missouri State Militia from Centreville. They were dressed every way; some with citizen hats and in their shirt- sleeves. I took them to be bushwhackers; did not fire on them. They discovered us and halted. We called on them. They soon saw we were Federals, as were all in full uniform. I formed within thirty yards of them before they discovered me. I halted and made one advance; found they were all right. They were under command of a lieutenant, and had sent ten men on Big Creek and they were the ones we fired on. I turned over the horses and equipments to him, as they were his company. So it all was a mistake, but was in the fault of the commander of the squad, as they could know who we were. The best and reliable information of Freeman is he was on Ash Flat himself. One hundred of his men were on the Warm Fork of Spring River; the rest of his command on the North Fork of White River. Shelby is with Marmaduke. Freeman's is the only force I could hear of,and McCray was some place close to Batesville, and had some men on Seven Point conscripting. There is no large force near the line that I could hear of,though the women told us Shelby was in that county with 10,000 men, in order to get us away, but all stuff. Plenty bushwhackers on Jack's Fork. The citizens that live there say there are more in that county now than has been since the war. Fine crops of corn on Current River and Jack's Fork. Most of the men have been at home and made their crops and now all gone of with Freeman. I will endeavor to keep you posted in regard to any rebel force.

Respectfully,

L. E. WHYBARK,

Captain, Commanding Detachment.

Source: Official Records of the Civil War: Series I, Vol. XLI, Part I, pp. 74-75

 
Wow, I didn't realize the real result would be so anxiously awaited! :D

Now, the real outcome!

Here is the quick(er) version, the full report can be read farther below:

The officer from whose prospective this scenario is based on is Captain L. E. Whybark, commanding a detachment of the 5th Missouri State Militia Cavalry. After the approaching force did not identify themselves, the troops under Whybark's command opened fire on the intruders. This caused the unidentified troops to quickly scatter in every direction, leaving behind four horses and their firearms but escaping otherwise unscathed. None of the militiamen were able to hit their targets in the dark. However, the identity of the late night visitors was not discovered until the next day when both groups met once again. The scouting party under Whybark was the first to discover the others. In the daylight, the unknown group had the look of bushwhackers, many were dressed in civilian clothes. Whybark formed his troops thirty yards from the others, but they held their fire. After Whybark's small command had formed, they had been discovered, however no shots were exchanged. Whybark advanced and called out to the potentially hostile group (who numbered around 20 men). This time both groups identified themselves to the other. It was then that it was discovered that the unidentified force from the previous night was actually a friendly unit - another scouting party sent out by a detachment of the 3rd Missouri State Militia, who was operating to the northeast. Their number was overestimated, that night the 3rd MSM scouts had actually consisted of only 10 men, who came upon Whybark's camp. It is unknown why they failed to identify themselves when ordered. The horses and equipment "captured" the night before was returned to the ill-equipped 3rd MSM and the two forces departed. I have yet to find a report stating if Whybark found the bushwhackers that they were trailing.

Overall, not the proudest moment of the militiamen.

Here is the full report:

JULY 18-21, 1864.- Scout in Shannon County, Mo.

Report of Captain Levi E. Whybark, Fifth missouri State Militia Cavalry.

HDQRS DETACH. FIFTH CAV. MISSOURI STATE MILITIA,

Salem, Mo., July 22, 1864.


SIR: I just returned from down in Shannon County. I started Monday night with sixty men to capture some bushwhackers reported to be on Rock Creek, about sixty- five miles from Salem, or at what is known as the Hay Hollow, in the southeast corner of Shannon County, where they were herding their stolen horses. I traveled all night Monday night. Tuesday I got to the place abut 2 o'clock, but they had left an few days previous with their stock. They left some eight young horses which they could not get off with, which we brought in. They were stolen from Union men in this county, which I gave to them. I then camped and scouted around there until morning. Found no rebels, but plenty of signs. Wednesday morning I divided my men in three squads; sent one squad up Jack's Fork and Current and Gladen Valley, under Sergeant Neff; one squad up Current to the mouth of Big Sinking,then up it to the head,under Lieutenant Ringer. I and Lieutenant Fisher took the other squad, coming up Brushy Creek and then Big Creek to the head. I camped Wednesday night on head of Big Creek. There I heard fourteen rebels had passed up the evening before. We camped in a meadow. Abut 1 o'clock some dozen or so came on us. Would not make themselves known. We fired a few rounds into them and they scattered in every direction, leaving four horses and equipments, and their arms. The brush was so thick and it dark we did not kill any.

Next morning, Thursday, I followed on the divide in the southeast corner of Dent County, some twenty- five miles from Salem. There I came across some twenty of the Third Missouri State Militia from Centreville. They were dressed every way; some with citizen hats and in their shirt- sleeves. I took them to be bushwhackers; did not fire on them. They discovered us and halted. We called on them. They soon saw we were Federals, as were all in full uniform. I formed within thirty yards of them before they discovered me. I halted and made one advance; found they were all right. They were under command of a lieutenant, and had sent ten men on Big Creek and they were the ones we fired on. I turned over the horses and equipments to him, as they were his company. So it all was a mistake, but was in the fault of the commander of the squad, as they could know who we were. The best and reliable information of Freeman is he was on Ash Flat himself. One hundred of his men were on the Warm Fork of Spring River; the rest of his command on the North Fork of White River. Shelby is with Marmaduke. Freeman's is the only force I could hear of,and McCray was some place close to Batesville, and had some men on Seven Point conscripting. There is no large force near the line that I could hear of,though the women told us Shelby was in that county with 10,000 men, in order to get us away, but all stuff. Plenty bushwhackers on Jack's Fork. The citizens that live there say there are more in that county now than has been since the war. Fine crops of corn on Current River and Jack's Fork. Most of the men have been at home and made their crops and now all gone of with Freeman. I will endeavor to keep you posted in regard to any rebel force.

Respectfully,

L. E. WHYBARK,

Captain, Commanding Detachment.

Source: Official Records of the Civil War: Series I, Vol. XLI, Part I, pp. 74-75
Nailed it!! :bounce:
 
Lol! You and I must have been responding at the same time! I missed yours until now!!! 100% agree!
Yes, I failed to mention earlier, poor leadership. Good call!!! Unless I missed something, who splits their forces into small Dets while in heavily infested enemy territory! (Says the former reconner! Lol)
Wow, I didn't realize the real result would be so anxiously awaited!
@yellowthornoftexas , you or another member mentioned Daniel Boone fighting Indians a century earlier and knowing what to do....exactly right! I've never served in the military but .....you know....common sense on the night camp location!

And 4th MSM thanks for the fun thread!
Figures it was Missouri people fighting Missouri people....even by accident!
 

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