Laid-back Sherman

[Southland]

It seems to me there are some missing the point here. Brian Sisco's book tells a different story. I am sure most of you have not read that book. This book truly pegs Sherman of being the 'scum of the earth'. He personally ordered cannon fire that killed civilians. His men trashed the women, children and elderly. Rape and killing of the blacks and whites. On various occasions he was seen and reported for observing his men doing these things.

Like ole says, incoming.

 

[wilber6150]

It seems to me there are some missing the point here. Brian Sisco's book tells a different story. I am sure most of you have not read that book. This book truly pegs Sherman of being the 'scum of the earth'. He personally ordered cannon fire that killed civilians. His men trashed the women, children and elderly. Rape and killing of the blacks and whites. On various occasions he was seen and reported for observing his men doing these things.

Like ole says, incoming.

Whats the title of the book and what incidents are you talking about in which civilians were ordered killed by Sherman.. And are you saying he observed his men raping and killing civilians?

 

[wilber6150]

If he was "scum of the earth" why would a Confederate general stand up at his funeral? Why wouldn't he announce to his army that Lincoln was just assisinated and let them get their revenge on Johnsons army? Your author doesnt show up on amazon or any mainstream book website, or as any reference to Sherman, so where can this book be found...

 

[matthew mckeon]

Thanks everyone, and they called Sherman nuts,lol it seems like all thru the war Stanton was the real nut case causing trouble starting with Sumpter..

I don't think Stanton was necessarily "nuts" but there was an element of instability in his character. Great gifts as a Secretary of War, but prone to push the panic button in tense situations(The first day of battle with the Virginia, 2nd Bull Run, and after Lincoln's assassination). Actually his actions about Sumter(if we are thinking of the same ones) strike me as right.

 

[johan_steele]

Read it and left it in the junk pile, poorly researched to put it politely from a a clearly biased and frankly very dishonest source. IMO worse than DiLorenzo for creative use of sources and outright invention. I'll be as polite as I can and call it merely a load of poorly researched, anti US, agenda driven bull scat.

It seems to me there are some missing the point here. Brian Sisco's book tells a different story. I am sure most of you have not read that book. This book truly pegs Sherman of being the 'scum of the earth'. He personally ordered cannon fire that killed civilians. His men trashed the women, children and elderly. Rape and killing of the blacks and whites. On various occasions he was seen and reported for observing his men doing these things.

Like ole says, incoming.

 

[Nathanb1]

It seems to me there are some missing the point here. Brian Sisco's book tells a different story. I am sure most of you have not read that book. This book truly pegs Sherman of being the 'scum of the earth'. He personally ordered cannon fire that killed civilians. His men trashed the women, children and elderly. Rape and killing of the blacks and whites. On various occasions he was seen and reported for observing his men doing these things.

Like ole says, incoming.

Sometimes there's a reason no one has read the book.

 

[johan_steele]

It was no secret that Logan had sat annd watched laughing his keister off as a Provost was tossed into the river trying to impede the progress of some of his men.

I once heard it put thus: "Shemans men vs the AoP; might as well throw Marines in amidst a Boy Scout jamboree."

They had also caught the rumors of what was being said about Sherman. The possibility of there being some kind of collision was probably fairly real.

 

[Southland]

Whats the title of the book and what incidents are you talking about in which civilians were ordered killed by Sherman..

The book is called War Crimes against Southern Civilians by Walter Brian Cisco with lots of primary material from both sides of the war.
The book says, here is what I wrote above- He personally ordered cannon fire that killed civilians.

And are you saying he observed his men raping and killing civilians?

That is what the book says. He was present and scoffed off the activity saying "Boys will be Boys".

 

[Southland]

If he was "scum of the earth" why would a Confederate general stand up at his funeral? Why wouldn't he announce to his army that Lincoln was just assisinated and let them get their revenge on Johnsons army? Your author doesnt show up on amazon or any mainstream book website, or as any reference to Sherman, so where can this book be found...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/158980466X/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

 

[Elennsar]

To answer the question of one of the Amazon reviewers (" Are Cisco and DiLorenzo and other historians who offer nonconventional interpretations of the war really scoundrels and fools?")

Yes. Maybe not both, but certainly scoundrels.

 

[K Hale]

To be kinda fair to Stanton, in the wake of the Lincoln assassination, no one knew how far the conspiracy went, who was involved, or who else might be on the hit list. I don't blame him for being nervous, but I do blame him for wildly going off on Sherman. And as for Halleck... well, some friend he was.

 

[Elennsar]

To be kinda fair to Stanton, in the wake of the Lincoln assassination, no one knew how far the conspiracy went, who was involved, or who else might be on the hit list. I don't blame him for being nervous, but I do blame him for wildly going off on Sherman. And as for Halleck... well, some friend he was.

Seconding this. Though I suppose if I was in his shoes, and I was unsure what the hell to think, wondering if someone was secretly a Confederate sympathizer - and Sherman is a southern sympathizer (two different things) - would be one of the things going through my head. Ridiculous? Certainly. But it might have been easy to get carried away with paranoia and domino effect kind of theories (If A, then obviously B which means C which means D which means...and you get to Z before the brain recognizes that this is not going to happen).

Shame on Halleck for not telling Stanton that it was absolute nonsense and that Sherman would never do such a thing, however.

 

[K Hale]

Right. In a nutshell, Stanton simply let his imagination run away with him.

 

[Elennsar]

Exactly. Foundation? None whatsoever.

Halleck doesn't have that excuse. What the bleep is his problem?

Even if he's not a friend of Sherman's, standing by and letting this sort of thing be said is not a very nice thing to do.

 

[OpnCoronet]

To be fair, Elennsar, if Cisco and DiLorenzo actually believe what they write, they are merely fools, but, if they don't believe what they write, THEN they are, indeed, scoundrels.

 

[K Hale]

Can't they be both?

 

[Elennsar]

One should never rule out the possibility. Personally I prefer "scoundrel" because I refuse to believe anyone could be that stupid.

Its like optimism, only not optimistic.

 

[donna]

I think one of big differences for Sherman and his wife is that she was a very devout Catholic like her Mother. She raised all eight of the Sherman children in the Catholic faith. Actually in 1864, Ellen Sherman took up temporary residence in South Bend, Indiana so the children could attend University of Notre Dame and St. Mary's College. To Sherman's great displeasure and sorrow, his son Thomas Ewing Sherman was ordained a Jesuit priest in 1879. Sherman had hoped he would be head of the family. According to his son Thomas, Sherman went to Catholic Church up to outbreak of Civil War but not after.
Sherman's funeral Mass was presided over by his son Thomas and Sherman was buried in Calvary Cemetery in St. Louis.

 

[K Hale]

Ellen spent their whole married life trying to get Sherman to become a Catholic. He spent their whole married life trying to get her to stop spending so much money. Neither one of them ever made any headway. "Talk to da hand."

 

[Elennsar]

When an irresistible force meets an immovable object, which is the woman?