Kentucky Long Rifle....

[bBobbyb]

My wife and I are just getting started in this hobby. We (like most everyone) have a VERY strict budget. We are looking at joining the Confederate side. I have been looking into what rifles were used by the south, specifically the Kentucky long rifle (and it's ilk). My research has found that the Confederates used many 'hunting' rifles, especially early 1861 and 1862. In fact, as I've read, most of the 'sharpshooters' used these rifles and could hit a head sized target consistently at 400 yards. The feeling I get, based on what I've read, is that Confederate soldiers used pretty much whatever would sling lead down range.
So, my question is simply this. Why is there such an 'anti long rifle' attitude among so many reenactors?
It seems perfectly plausible to me that a southern man would use, and continue to use, what he grew up with.
...am I missing something?
B-

 

[johan_steele]

Because much of what you just wrote is incorrect. CS forces were in many cases better armed than their US counterparts. The CS soldier of the ANV & AoT were well drilled & rather well equipped. The ragged rebel is not generally borne out.

Research, research and when done with that a bit more research is in order.

Spend the coin on a P53 & a quality set of gear and you'll be better off than with a squirrel rifle.

 

[chellers]

Welcome to CivilWarTalk.

My suggestion: Follow @johan_steele's advice above for he well knows the subject.

 

[Al Murray]

Welcome from West Virginia!

 

[James B White]

Think about supply. A hundred men in a company each bring weapons from home. They're on the firing line in battle and need more ammunition. Twenty require lead shot, some want minie balls, others need .45 round balls, others .50. Some want powder loose for their flasks, others want it in cartridges for their boxes. Some want caps, but not the flint-users, who might need an occasional flint replaced. There was a logistic reason to encourage standardization in weapons, at least within companies or regiments.

 

[poorjack]

All good points on using the Kentucky. Very early in the War, there may well have been some present and a hodgepodge of weapons, but this got sorted rather quickly and especially when like new riflemuskets were available on the ground that had only been dropped once by fleeing bluecoats. I'm sure those with weapons that were considered inferior or non standard were quickly equipped with captured stuff starting with First Manassas.

That said, welcome to an addicting hobby, check your private messages.

 

[donna]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[ole]

And, Bobby, a lot will depend on the unit you eventually join. It will have its own standards about what you carry and wear.

 

[thomas aagaard]

All good points on using the Kentucky. Very early in the War, there may well have been some present and a hodgepodge of weapons, but this got sorted rather quickly and especially when like new riflemuskets were available on the ground that had only been dropped once by fleeing bluecoats. I'm sure those with weapons that were considered inferior or non standard were quickly equipped with captured stuff starting with First Manassas.

That said, welcome to an addicting hobby, check your private messages.

At that battle most soldiers on both sides used smoothbores.(since the soldiers where armed with what was found in armories... and that was mostly smoothbores)
Early on the South was actually better at getting weapons for their soldiers then the north. Including modern P53s.
Many Union soldiers changed weapons after the fall of Vicksburg.

But it should also be noted that some officers actually preferred smoothbores since most soldiers could not hit anything at range anyway under combat conditions... and at close range the buckshots used in smoothbores gave you way better firepower.

 

[ole]

But it should also be noted that some officers actually preferred smoothbores since most soldiers could not hit anything at range anyway under combat conditions... and at close range the buckshots used in smoothbores gave you way better firepower.

You are way ahead of many of us in your logic, Tom.

We have a habit of thinking that every soldier was a fair marksman. Nope. Dan'l Boone was long gone by 1861.

 

[reading48]

Hello and Greetings from Penna.

The so called Kentucky Long Rifle was being designed and built by German Craftsmen, immigrants residing in Pennsylvania...

 

[ole]

Hello and Greetings from Penna.

The so called Kentucky Long Rifle was being designed and built by German Craftsmen, immigrants residing in Pennsylvania...

Amen. It was a Pennsylvania rifle long before it became a Kentucky rifle.

 

[bBobbyb]

Thank you all for the great replies. I apologize if this horse has been beat to death, as I'm sure it has. With the long rifle being less than half the cost of the cheapest Enfield I've seen. I am just trying to get on the field quickly, without breaking the bank...lol. Hell, if I could find a 3 banded Enfield for $300-$400, it wouldn't be an issue.

Also, since this seems to be a good source of information. What kind of impression should I be going for? My wife and I are long time medieval reenactors but, due to a knee injury I'm trying to get away from the fighting. So, I'm looking for something where I can 'take it easy' if I wake up and the knee is bigger than it should be. I've read that sharpshooters were allowed to enter and exit the field ad hoc, and that they were generally training on distancing and marksmanship while troopers were drilling.

Thanks again for all the info.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Welcome to CivilWarTalk.

 

[johan_steele]

Thank you all for the great replies. I apologize if this horse has been beat to death, as I'm sure it has. With the long rifle being less than half the cost of the cheapest Enfield I've seen. I am just trying to get on the field quickly, without breaking the bank...lol. Hell, if I could find a 3 banded Enfield for $300-$400, it wouldn't be an issue.

Also, since this seems to be a good source of information. What kind of impression should I be going for? My wife and I are long time medieval reenactors but, due to a knee injury I'm trying to get away from the fighting. So, I'm looking for something where I can 'take it easy' if I wake up and the knee is bigger than it should be. I've read that sharpshooters were allowed to enter and exit the field ad hoc, and that they were generally training on distancing and marksmanship while troopers were drilling.

Thanks again for all the info.

Sharpshooters, especially CS, are grossly over done & far too many don't know half as much about the subject as they think they do.

Look up Republican Blues on this site as he is a legitimate expert on the subject.

Showing up at a re-eanctment and declaring yourself to the CO as a Sharpshooter is a mistake; many will take offense, others won't have a clue how to use a Sharpshooter anyway. If you have another option I would suggest it. There are plenty of other options available from clerk, QM, sutler, artificer, blacksmith, farrier, teamster etc. as not every soldier carried a musket.

If you are going to insist on a Sharpshooter impression see if you can find a like minded unit; preferably one that knows the difference between a P56 & a P53. If every man has a brass scope and a leather barrel condom run away from them, very fast. If not and they seem legit start doing some serious research. In the threads below you will find several books that you must avail yourself of if you are going to do a credible impression. Then you had best learn how to shoot, I mean really learn how to shoot with a black powder arm at actual combat ranges. So before you spout about being able to hit a mans head at 400 yards you had best be able to at least put it on the paper at that range. Being able to accurately judge distances, windage and knowing required elevations at such ranges are a necessity. Knowing the weapon is only one aspect, a rather small one all things considered, because a Sharpshooter had to be very physical as he was typically working as a scout or skirmisher often very close to enemy lines.

Below are a few threads that might garner some knowledge.

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/sharpeshooter-in-reenactments.21940/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/confederate-sharpshooters-rifles.94018/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/what-did-it-take-to-be-a-confederate-sharpshooter.81107/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/soldier-marksmanship.78681/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/sharpshooter-doctrine-and-ranges.77520/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/weapons-of-the-confederate-sharpshooter.74209/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/longest-sniper-hit.16731/

http://civilwartalk.com/forums/impressions-of-the-civil-war.140/

http://georgiasharpshooters.org/

IMO if you are going to do an impression; do the best you can or don't bother.

 

[M.Warren]

johan_steele, will not lead you wrong when it comes to a good impression. I've been around the hobby for over 35 years and I learn something every time I read one of his posts. Spend the cash and get a good P56-P53 from the start, or you'll end up doing it later and whatever you spend now will just be that much more money out of your pocket in the long run.

Sharpshooters, especially CS, are grossly over done & far too many don't know half as much about the subject as they think they do.

Look up Republican Blues on this site as he is a legitimate expert on the subject.

Showing up at a re-eanctment and declaring yourself to the CO as a Sharpshooter is a mistake; many will take offense, others won't have a clue how to use a Sharpshooter anyway. If you have another option I would suggest it. There are plenty of other options available from clerk, QM, sutler, artificer, blacksmith, farrier, teamster etc. as not every soldier carried a musket.

If you are going to insist on a Sharpshooter impression see if you can find a like minded unit; preferably one that knows the difference between a P56 & a P53. If every man has a brass scope and a leather barrel condom run away from them, very fast. If not and they seem legit start doing some serious research. In the threads below you will find several books that you must avail yourself of if you are going to do a credible impression. Then you had best learn how to shoot, I mean really learn how to shoot with a black powder arm at actual combat ranges. So before you spout about being able to hit a mans head at 400 yards you had best be able to at least put it on the paper at that range. Being able to accurately judge distances, windage and knowing required elevations at such ranges are a necessity. Knowing the weapon is only one aspect, a rather small one all things considered, because a Sharpshooter had to be very physical as he was typically working as a scout or skirmisher often very close to enemy lines.

Below are a few threads that might garner some knowledge.

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/sharpeshooter-in-reenactments.21940/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/confederate-sharpshooters-rifles.94018/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/what-did-it-take-to-be-a-confederate-sharpshooter.81107/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/soldier-marksmanship.78681/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/sharpshooter-doctrine-and-ranges.77520/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/weapons-of-the-confederate-sharpshooter.74209/

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/longest-sniper-hit.16731/

http://civilwartalk.com/forums/impressions-of-the-civil-war.140/

http://georgiasharpshooters.org/

IMO if you are going to do an impression; do the best you can or don't bother.

 

[thomas aagaard]

If you "play" a sharpshooter you should be able to talk to an audience about the skills they had. And how their skillset different to the skillset of an ordinary soldier.

And the points he mention is exactly why the ordinary soldier did not have the skills needed to take advantage of a rifle-musket. With a modern military arm judging the distance is not that important... (with a 5.56 you can hit out to 300m without really thinking about the range) With a Springfield if you judge the man to be at 300yards and he is at 250, you will miss with the round going over his head.

Most of our members have never fired a musket with a round in it. Iam not much better since I only done it once.(I have fired more than one shot, but only during one day) but at least I have experience with modern military firearms.(including 7.62 rifles and 50cal "anti material rifle"...)
One result is that many don't bother press the musket into the shoulder properly.

Some of our members during the first part of Load have the ramrod facing away from them... why? because they have never tried to load with a fixed bayonet and using the ramrod...
That is, until I took over at 1st sergeant... and started doing things by the book... only changing things when we need to for safety.. and when standing still and doing drill with out using powder, fixing bayonets and using ramrods is not dangerous.

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

My wife and I are just getting started in this hobby. We (like most everyone) have a VERY strict budget. We are looking at joining the Confederate side. I have been looking into what rifles were used by the south, specifically the Kentucky long rifle (and it's ilk). My research has found that the Confederates used many 'hunting' rifles, especially early 1861 and 1862. In fact, as I've read, most of the 'sharpshooters' used these rifles and could hit a head sized target consistently at 400 yards. The feeling I get, based on what I've read, is that Confederate soldiers used pretty much whatever would sling lead down range.
So, my question is simply this. Why is there such an 'anti long rifle' attitude among so many reenactors?
It seems perfectly plausible to me that a southern man would use, and continue to use, what he grew up with.
...am I missing something?
B-

Post #2 by Johann Steele says it all.....In my opinion, no further discussion is necessary.....Research the unit that you want to join, and buy the weapon that they would have had......

 

[M.Warren]

Brother, Im thinkin what Johan is 'firin ta is "walkin the walk, better talk the talk"! Lol portrayin a "sharpshooter" better be able ta back it up. You know Pard, like those fellers you an I run into, sayin the been in the sand box, but they don't know Bo Diddey bout Fallujah 'r Helmand Province!

Gotcha, lol. Johan's usually always very serious. I wasn't expecting anything else. Disregard my earlier question by all means @johan_steele . I thought that was strange..

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

Thank you all for the great replies. I apologize if this horse has been beat to death, as I'm sure it has. With the long rifle being less than half the cost of the cheapest Enfield I've seen. I am just trying to get on the field quickly, without breaking the bank...lol. Hell, if I could find a 3 banded Enfield for $300-$400, it wouldn't be an issue.

Also, since this seems to be a good source of information. What kind of impression should I be going for? My wife and I are long time medieval reenactors but, due to a knee injury I'm trying to get away from the fighting. So, I'm looking for something where I can 'take it easy' if I wake up and the knee is bigger than it should be. I've read that sharpshooters were allowed to enter and exit the field ad hoc, and that they were generally training on distancing and marksmanship while troopers were drilling.

Thanks again for all the info.

If you knee is giving you fits, may I suggest considering joining an artillery unit??.....There may be less marching involved and there won't be the expense of buying a rifle......If you're located in Western IL or Eastern Iowa, I bet I know of a Confederate Artillery unit that would be glad to have you join!!