Johnston Commands AoNV Post Antietam

[General Butterfield]

Johnston Commands AoNV Post Antietam

It was mentioned in the Longstreet forum that in October of 1862 that Longstreet wrote a letter to Joseph Johnston about the possibility of him coming back as commander of AoNV. I thought this would make an interesting discussion topic. So lets have Lee resign due to illness along with McClellan being fired in early November.

How would Johnston have dealt with Burnside, Hooker or Meade? Could he have pulled off victories at Fredericksburg or Chancellorsville? How would the war in the East have progressed with Joseph Johnston at the helm?

 

[jackt62]

Johnston sought to obtain highly defensible positions with secure communication lines against which an enemy assault would be fruitless. Accordingly, he would probably have seen the same result at Fredricksburg as did Lee, given that the ANV position at that battle met Johnston's requirements. In contrast, I doubt whether Johnston would have had the nerve to divide his forces, as Lee did at Chancellorsville to successfully confront the AOTP, although if Stonewall was still in command in this speculative scenario, Johnston might have at least permitted that particular flank attack.

Johnston would not have raided Pennsylvania and would most likely have maintained strong positions along the Rapidan/Rappahanock rivers. In contrast to Lee who advocated the offensive-defense, Johnston believed in a "fabian" approach of withdrawal and maintenance of resources.

 

[highplainsdrifter59]

There would have been no Northern invasion to Gettysburg, which may well have been good knowing what happened there. But here is the unknown, what then does Johnston do instead of going north? Mind you I do think there would have been no Chancellorsville, so no winning that battle to even setup a movement of troops north.
Maybe the scenario of just defend and fall back toward Richmond AGAIN, as he did in 1862. This time the Union army surround Richmond without having to cross a river every 10 miles as they did in 62. The end of the war would perhaps ended in mid-64, with the Union Army marching into Richmond as Johnston fell back out from the city to Petersburg and further south until surround and gave up.
I really cannot come up with a scenario of Johnston leading the ANV, with any better success than what Lee accomplished, in truth I see a much worse scenario happening.

 

[67th Tigers]

Fredericksburg certainly.

Chancellorsville may be different. Johnston's general policy at Manassas was to try and pull the enemy south so he could strike at the supply lines and turn them. That said, when he saw McClellan divided he struck hard. A lot depends on what he thinks is happening. If he see's a chance to overwhelm a portion of the Federal army he may strike hard like Lee.

In 1861 Johnston was asking for a larger army to enable him to cross the Potomac and strike Baltimore (which would yield Washington as well). I see no reason why he wouldn't invade the north.

 

[Jimklag]

Johnston Commands AoNV Post Antietam

It was mentioned in the Longstreet forum that in October of 1862 that Longstreet wrote a letter to Joseph Johnston about the possibility of him coming back as commander of AoNV. I thought this would make an interesting discussion topic. So lets have Lee resign due to illness along with McClellan being fired in early November.

How would Johnston have dealt with Burnside, Hooker or Meade? Could he have pulled off victories at Fredericksburg or Chancellorsville? How would the war in the East have progressed with Joseph Johnston at the helm?

The biggest problem I have with your scenario is named Jefferson Davis. It's not likely that Johnston gets that command in 1862. In fact I think "hell freezing over" would be on the lips of Davis in any discussion of Johnston getting that command.

 

[Lt R. Blackwell 4th Texas]

Johnston wins at Fredericksburg. In May, when Hooker gets behind his left flank Johnston begins a series of retreats to the outskirts of Richmond. In August he abandons Richmond to save his army and retreats to Petersburg, leaving a clear escape path into NC. Combined with the fall of Vicksburg and then Chattanooga the Confederacy basically surrenders in November 1863. "Fightin' Joe" becomes President in 1868.

 

[General Butterfield]

Johnston wins at Fredericksburg. In May, when Hooker gets behind his left flank Johnston begins a series of retreats to the outskirts of Richmond. In August he abandons Richmond to save his army and retreats to Petersburg, leaving a clear escape path into NC. Combined with the fall of Vicksburg and then Chattanooga the Confederacy basically surrenders in November 1863. "Fightin' Joe" becomes President in 1868.

I'm glad I finally found a scenario where my favorite Hooker wins the war and becomes President.

Chancellorsville may be different. Johnston's general policy at Manassas was to try and pull the enemy south so he could strike at the supply lines and turn them. That said, when he saw McClellan divided he struck hard. A lot depends on what he thinks is happening. If he see's a chance to overwhelm a portion of the Federal army he may strike hard like Lee.

In 1861 Johnston was asking for a larger army to enable him to cross the Potomac and strike Baltimore (which would yield Washington as well). I see no reason why he wouldn't invade the north.

Interesting, so under the right circumstances would could see an invasion of the north. I'm unsure what to think of Johnston as a commander. On the one hand Grant- Longstreet think he was the best Confederate general. On the other he didn't have much of an opportunity to show it.

 

[highplainsdrifter59]

Interesting, so under the right circumstances would could see an invasion of the north. I'm unsure what to think of Johnston as a commander. On the one hand Grant- Longstreet think he was the best Confederate general. On the other he didn't have much of an opportunity to show it.

Johnston had a chance to prove his worth in the Atlanta Campaign and failed miserable. Even the Peninsula Campaign wasn't all that good, when Lee did take over it was on the outskirts of Richmond.
I really can't count First Bull Run, both him and Beauguard consider it their win.
Johnston was strictly a commander that was going to counter attack when HE felt he had overwhelming odds, those chances are few and far between. You first have had to make the other side think you were somewhere else or going in a different direction to split an army, Johnston wasn't that type general. Johnston was a hold a line, move back and wait for that once in a lifetime chance…….that never happened for him, or so he thought.
We also have to remember he wasn't a front line commander before the war, he attained his ranking in supplies and quartermaster logic. He had the schooling to be a front line commander or general but he never used that in his position.
Johnston was the south version of McClellan I suppose, he could supply, setup, organize and army, he just could not fight with one.