Jack's Shop battle flag

[civilwarincolor]

I was flipping through CW images on the LOC and noticed this flag of Battery D, 2d U.S. Artillery. On the flag it lists a number of the battles and campaigns they participated in and on the list was one battle that I had not heard of "Jack's Shop", but when I saw it listed on the flag it got me curious. Why would you list the battle on your flag if it was not important to the men of that unit?

I decided to look further to see what I could find about the unit and the battle. The battle took place September 21-22, 1863 in Rochelle in Madison County VA (about 50 miles West of Fredericksburg).

The battle itself, while now forgotten, featured some well known players. For the North General Buford and General Kilpatrick and for the South no less than JEB Stuart was at the helm. The battle itself is named for a blacksmith's shop in the area. While the outcome was not clear, as both sides claimed victory it did prove to be the deadliest battle in the county.

More about the Battle of Jack's Shop here, more about the 2nd United States Artillery, Battery D here. Note that in the history of the battery the battle is not even listed and they are listed as performing Reconnaissance across the Rapidan (which is just a 1/4 mile from "Jack's Shop" road today) on the dates of the battle. My feeling is that while they may have crossed the Rapidan at the same time, as far as the men were concerned the battle was more important, or they would not have listed it on their flag.

 

[James N.]

Interesting - I've heard of Haw's Shop, but not Jack's Shop.

 

[civilwarincolor]

Interesting - I've heard of Haw's Shop, but not Jack's Shop.

Yeah, when I went to look for it found very little. There is not even a Wikipedia entry for the battle. You figure something that had Buford, Kilpatrick and Stuart facing off would have a little more recognition. I did a search for it on this forum and found very little about it here either, mostly it was people, such as yourself, saying that they had never heard of it either.

When I saw the name so prominent at the bottom center of the flag it caught my attention and got me curious.

 

[AUG]

Sometimes all the battles a unit took part in (whether or not they were heavily engaged) were listed on their battle flag, while others had only the major battles listed. For instance, the 1st Texas Infantry's Wigfall flag (in my profile pic) had Seven Pines and Malvern Hill as two of the four battle honors on the flag, even though they only saw minimal action in both.

Sometimes it was members of the unit that painted or sewed the battle honors on, while others sent their colors off to have it 'professionally' done. Therefore, if the latter was done then they may have sent a list of the battles and skirmishes they took part in along with it, and whoever added the battle honors just added whatever was on the list.

 

[James N.]

...Sometimes it was members of the unit that painted or sewed the battle honors on, while others sent their colors off to have it 'professionally' done. Therefore, if the latter was done then they may have sent a list of the battles and skirmishes they took part in along with it, and whoever added the battle honors just added whatever was on the list.

Reminds me of Don Troiani's interpretation of the subject:

 

[civilwarincolor]

Sometimes all the battles a unit took part in (whether or not they were heavily engaged) were listed on their battle flag, while others had only the major battles listed. For instance, the 1st Texas Infantry's Wigfall flag (in my profile pic) had Seven Pines and Malvern Hill as two of the four battle honors on the flag, even though they only saw minimal action in both.

Sometimes it was members of the unit that painted or sewed the battle honors on, while others sent their colors off to have it 'professionally' done. Therefore, if the latter was done then they may have sent a list of the battles and skirmishes they took part in along with it, and whoever added the battle honors just added whatever was on the list.

I thought about that too, but when you look at the history of the unit here you see that they participated in First Manassas/Bull Run, but did not list it on their flag. There is a blank area above Antietam that looks like it should have something, but it is not there.

 

[AUG]

I thought about that too, but when you look at the history of the unit here you see that they participated in First Manassas/Bull Run, but did not list it on their flag. There is a blank area above Antietam that looks like it should have something, but it is not there.

Yeah, looking at the list they were also at Malvern Hill, which isn't listed. Perhaps they are on the other side of the flag....

Chickahominy was another name for Gaines' Mill, and Charles City Crossroads is Glendale/Frayser's Farm. I think E S Mills might be Ellerson's Mills, another name for Mechanicsville/Beaver Dam Creek.

 

[civilwarincolor]

Yeah, looking at the list they were also at Malvern Hill, which isn't listed. Perhaps they are on the other side of the flag....

Chickahominy was another name for Gaines' Mill, and Charles City Crossroads is Glendale/Frayser's Farm. I think E S Mills might be Ellerson's Mills, another name for Mechanicsville/Beaver Dam Creek.

I decided to download the full size version from here and it does appear that there might be something written in the spot above Antietam. It looks like it might possibly be Manassas, but I doubt a Union Artillery unit would have referred to it by anything other than Bull Run.

EDIT: Also looks like there is more text (not clear what) before the ES Mills. What battle ended with that?

 

[donna]

Interesting find. Like the Don Troiani picture very much.

The flag reminds me of one I saw on Antique Road Show this past week. The lady brought her Dad's flag from World War II. He was on submarine and they had all the ships they sunk or caused damage to. It was a nice piece of history that she had.

 

[Miles Krisman]

Sometimes all the battles a unit took part in (whether or not they were heavily engaged) were listed on their battle flag, while others had only the major battles listed. For instance, the 1st Texas Infantry's Wigfall flag (in my profile pic) had Seven Pines and Malvern Hill as two of the four battle honors on the flag, even though they only saw minimal action in both.

Sometimes it was members of the unit that painted or sewed the battle honors on, while others sent their colors off to have it 'professionally' done. Therefore, if the latter was done then they may have sent a list of the battles and skirmishes they took part in along with it, and whoever added the battle honors just added whatever was on the list.

It is my understanding that in the Confederate Army, the "Battle Honors" were applied for through the chain of command and the commanding General had to approve or "award" the honor. Regiments didn't simply put their own battle honors on.

 

[AUG]

It is my understanding that in the Confederate Army, the "Battle Honors" were applied for through the chain of command and the commanding General had to approve or "award" the honor. Regiments didn't simply put their own battle honors on.

Yes, that was the general rule by 1862, IIRC. I didn't mean to suggest that regiments simply chose whatever honors they wanted to apply; my point was that in some instances (such as the 1st Texas) the unit only saw minimal to no action in the battle, yet they still added the (authorized) battle honor to their flag. And in my second paragraph I was speaking of how they were applied after they were authorized.

 

[Jackson Hornets]

Jack's Shop sounds so familiar. I wanna say it was a skirmish in North Carolina maybe? I don't know but it's on the tip of my tongue. It's probably an alternate name for a battle or maybe where their unit was located during a battle. Kinda like how Pittsburgh Landing is where the main fighting was but Shiloh church was where the battle got its popular name from.

 

[7th Texas Mounted Rifles]

Jack's Shop sounds so familiar. I wanna say it was a skirmish in North Carolina maybe? I don't know but it's on the tip of my tongue. It's probably an alternate name for a battle or maybe where their unit was located during a battle. Kinda like how Pittsburgh Landing is where the main fighting was but Shiloh church was where the battle got its popular name from.

Yea, Jack's Shop.

Thats where they took the limbers and caissons to get the wheels rotated and aligned.

 

[civilwarincolor]

Jack's Shop sounds so familiar. I wanna say it was a skirmish in North Carolina maybe? I don't know but it's on the tip of my tongue. It's probably an alternate name for a battle or maybe where their unit was located during a battle. Kinda like how Pittsburgh Landing is where the main fighting was but Shiloh church was where the battle got its popular name from.

If you read my initial post it says that it was in Virginia, near Fredericksburg.

 

[Legion Para]

http://pecva.org/battle-of-jack-s-shop

 

[Legion Para]

Thanks civilwarincolor for posting this great flag photograph.

 

[Legion Para]

This website gives a brief history of Battery D, 2nd US Artillery. There are some interesting discrepancies between it and the flag. This list does not show Jack's Shop, but does show Haw's Shop.

http://civilwarintheeast.com/us-reg...gulars/2nd-united-states-artillery-battery-d/

 

[Legion Para]

On 25 March 2014 this photograph was first posted on this forum and no one posted a response.

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/flag-of-battery-d-2d-u-s-artillery.97104/

 

[civilwarincolor]

http://pecva.org/battle-of-jack-s-shop

Thanks for the pic, I knew someone on this forum would have been there or knew more!

This website gives a brief history of Battery D, 2nd US Artillery. There are some interesting discrepancies between it and the flag. This list does not show Jack's Shop, but does show Haw's Shop.

http://civilwarintheeast.com/us-reg...gulars/2nd-united-states-artillery-battery-d/

Yes, this is the link I gave in my first post. As I noted they show that the unit was crossing the Rapidan on the days listed for the battle.

On 25 March 2014 this photograph was first posted on this forum and no one posted a response.

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/flag-of-battery-d-2d-u-s-artillery.97104/

Don't know what to say, I think it is more of the nature of this forum. Sometimes I post something and get little or no response, sometimes I get a lot of response. It all depends on who is looking, what else is happening in the forum and how it is labeled. I think perhaps that people got more curious about what "Jack's Shop" was than "Flag of Battery D..." The discussion here is around the battle mostly. Also in the previous post the only text provided was direct from the LOC and no comments personally on why it was posted or interesting.

Just my thoughts...

 

[RebYell64]

It has something of a marker nearby the battle site. Amazing how such a battle can be forgotten. At least they didn't build a mall over it.

Edit: The picture is huge when clicked on so you can see what it says a little easier.

By J. J. Prats, October 31, 2009