Forrest Is this Forrest ?

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

There's a very interesting discussion about an image that may or may not be that of NBF
in the photography forum.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/opinion-could-this-be-nbforrest.149231/

 

[nitrofd]

There's a very interesting discussion about an image that may or may not be that of NBF
in the photography forum.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/opinion-could-this-be-nbforrest.149231/

I think not.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I think not.

Agreed.

 

[diane]

Here is the last photograph taken of Forrest before his death in 1877:

This is a remarkable photo I've never seen before but it's like the last few taken of him late in life - he'd finally put the war behind him.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I've never seen this image before either .

Where did ya find it ?

To be honest . . . in my humble opinion . . . this image looks nothing like Forrest.

 

[Cavalry Charger]

this image looks nothing like Forrest.

The fire has definitely gone out of his eyes ... and I don't think it looks like him either

 

[UCVRelics]

I haven't changed my opinion, the photo in the original post is NOT Forrest. The one @diane posted above is one of my favorites of Ole Bedford.

 

[diane]

I've never seen this one before but I have seen two very like it - in fact, the same suit. It's definitely Forrest! But...the late photos of him are very, very different from the war time photos. That's why I think the conversion to Christianity was real, and he wasn't playing political games with his last speech.

 

[diane]

By the way, there's something important to note about this picture. Just under Forrest's ear can be seen an odd shadow - that is a head rest. This is NOT a post-mortem photograph but it's not far off from being one. At the last stages, Forrest could not stand on his own and required the help of a couple friends. The head rest was used because he was too ill to hold his head up very long.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

The one @diane posted above is one of my favorites of Ole Bedford.

UCV, do you know anything about the history of this image ?
For the life of me, I don't think this looks anything like Forrest.

Resemblance ? yes . . . but that's about it, IMHO.

But the more I compare the images, I think you and @diane may be right.

He sure did change during his final year.

 

[diane]

There are a couple moles on the right side of his face in both pictures, and a peculiar sort of x-shaped little scar on the left side, just below the cheekbone. It's hard to see in any picture of him but it's there - not in the early war pictures but somewhere around the middle. Also, the shape of the beard at the lower lip has the same life-long pattern of a bare patch on each side.

 

[diane]

Even though this is one of the very best photos of Forrest, it's a little sad, too. Somebody else tied his necktie - not done by a leftie - and combed his hair, which is done in not quite his manner. At this point, he couldn't raise his arms. The suit is a bit empty looking as well. He hadn't yet got down to 100lbs, but the weight loss was starting - he lost it very rapidly. I'd bet this photo was done only a few weeks, if that, before his death.

 

[nyarb60]

Thank you for posting. It's a photo of Forrest I have never seen.

I believe the photo is Forrest, the resemblance is still there.

I just read some of the most remarkable stuff on Forrest.

For anyone who is interested, here is the link.

I'm a bit paranoid about posting incorrectly, so although it is about his
campaigns, it has some insightful quotes by Forrest from his men, as to who this remarkable man
was, during battle and then finally his farewell speech.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/forrestcampaigns.html

 

[James N.]

By the way, there's something important to note about this picture. Just under Forrest's ear can be seen an odd shadow - that is a head rest. This is NOT a post-mortem photograph but it's not far off from being one. At the last stages, Forrest could not stand on his own and required the help of a couple friends. The head rest was used because he was too ill to hold his head up very long.

Diane, I'm not disagreeing with you about Forrest's health, but these braces or headrests were in common use throughout the period, even for seated subjects and not only invalid ones. We see more evidence of them on standing subjects because they poke out from behind their feet in full-length shots, but since they were adjustable they could be shortened to accommodate sitters as well. They were used simply to prevent any movement during the exposure time necessary then.

 

[diane]

Diane, I'm not disagreeing with you about Forrest's health, but these braces or headrests were in common use throughout the period, even for seated subjects and not only invalid ones. We see more evidence of them on standing subjects because they poke out from behind their feet in full-length shots, but since they were adjustable they could be shortened to accommodate sitters as well. They were used simply to prevent any movement during the exposure time necessary then.

Oh, yes, that's very true! There's one of Lee standing where such a brace can be seen by his foot - he wasn't ill at all. But at this time in Forrest's life, it probably was used because of health reasons. He had gotten very weak, by the time of his last reunion with his troops, that he had to be put on his horse and then he didn't get off it - spoke to them from it. He told them he hadn't thought he'd make it to this reunion and that it would be his last - it was. He had spent most of the year flat in bed, and he died just a few weeks after the reunion.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

There are a couple moles on the right side of his face in both pictures, and a peculiar sort of x-shaped little scar on the left side, just below the cheekbone. It's hard to see in any picture of him but it's there

OK, I see this now.

Not doubting your expertise, only saying IMHO this image didn't resemble anything I'd ever seen of Forrest.

There's probably an open position for ya at the CIA.

 

[diane]

OK, I see this now.

Not doubting your expertise, only saying IMHO this image didn't resemble anything I'd ever seen of Forrest.

There's probably an open position for ya at the CIA.

Well, I don't know about that! I'd seen some pictures of him in his last years is why I knew it was him - the picture of him during the war shows hollow cheeks and a different type of lean. He was all muscle, no fat at all. The photos toward the end, though, show a lack of tone in the muscles and give his face a little fullness that it shouldn't have had considering he was literally starving to death. Figure it was nerve damage from the diabetes, shut down the digestive process and it also causes extreme weakness in the hands and feet in particular. He and his wife traveled to all the health springs around Tennessee, which is why he spent a couple months with John Wilder. Wilder was very concerned about Forrest's situation and hoped his 'curative air' therapy would work, but there was nothing going to do it. Forrest knew that already - I kind of think he went to the spas to benefit his wife more than himself as she was sickly.

 

[1NCCAV]

Here is the last photograph taken of Forrest before his death in 1877:

This is a remarkable photo I've never seen before but it's like the last few taken of him late in life - he'd finally put the war behind him.

He died at 56 and it looks like he could be in his 70s here. I think the war must have taken a lot out of him. He was leading by example in his 40s in a way that most soldiers only do in their 20s and 30s.

Look at recent generals like David Petraeus, Stanley McChrystal, et al. They served into their 40s and in some cases their 50s but they did not engage in extended and extensive close combat on a regular basis in their 40s. Forrest did.

 

[diane]

He died at 56 and it looks like he could be in his 70s here. I think the war must have taken a lot out of him. He was leading by example in his 40s in a way that most soldiers only do in their 20s and 30s.

Look at recent generals like David Petraeus, Stanley McChrystal, et al. They served into their 40s and in some cases their 50s but they did not engage in extended and extensive close combat on a regular basis in their 40s. Forrest did.

Forrest and his wife did a lot for disabled veterans and their families - he was a disabled veteran himself. He ended the war a lot less healthy than when he started it, that's for sure. There were signs during the war - at Johnsonville he shocked his men when he got off his horse and could barely walk. Several times he had fainting spells, which was probably the diabetes starting up, and developed migraines that were killers, had several bouts with fever. After the war, his right arm and hand became almost useless, to the point he often had his wife or son write for him, and he developed a permanent limp from the foot wound at Tupelo. He was doing pretty well until the last three or four years of his life - seemed to go downhill rapidly then. With his health in decline, he commented to a friend, "I suppose I have killed myself."

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

He died at 56 and it looks like he could be in his 70s here. I think the war must have taken a lot out of him. He was leading by example in his 40s in a way that most soldiers only do in their 20s and 30s.

Good points !