Interpretation of CSMR Record

[Tjw16g]

Hi I am trying to figure out if my ancestor fought at the Battle of Perryville. He was in the 41st Georgia but there is not a specific muster roll dated for October 1862. From what I can tell 41st Georgia CSMRs only have records for Perryville if a soldier was wounded, killed, or captured there. My ancestor has this record. It says that this is for paroled prisoners. Would that mean that the information came from a union record upon capture or a confederate record upon return? What is the likelihood of accuracy for the information of him being present from enlistment to capture? He was captured at the Battle of Champion Hill.

He returned and was present for November and December of 1863 which is the last of his service records. His pension includes details of being wounded at the Battle of Atlanta. What are the odds of him having been at Resaca and New Hope Church? The service record is silent on the issue. Is it more likely that he was present or absent during those times if they were not recorded?

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

Hi I am trying to figure out if my ancestor fought at the Battle of Perryville. He was in the 41st Georgia but there is not a specific muster roll dated for October 1862. From what I can tell 41st Georgia CSMRs only have records for Perryville if a soldier was wounded, killed, or captured there. My ancestor has this record. It says that this is for paroled prisoners. Would that mean that the information came from a union record upon capture or a confederate record upon return? What is the likelihood of accuracy for the information of him being present from enlistment to capture? He was captured at the Battle of Champion Hill.

He returned and was present for November and December of 1863 which is the last of his service records. His pension includes details of being wounded at the Battle of Atlanta. What are the odds of him having been at Resaca and New Hope Church? The service record is silent on the issue. Is it more likely that he was present or absent during those times if they were not recorded?

View attachment 440966

 

[Bob Velke]

Hi I am trying to figure out if my ancestor fought at the Battle of Perryville.

The CMSRs are "Compiled Military Service Records" and the first word is the most significant in this context. These records were compiled starting in 1890 for use by the Record and Pension Division of the War Department. So they are not themselves primary sources but they were compiled from primary sources, including muster rolls, hospital rolls, POW records (Union and Confederate), and others. It was a double-blind project (two independent data entry processes and a third to reconcile any conflicts) so they tend to be very accurate - by which I mean that they almost always accurately reflect the original records. Those original records were sometimes wrong, however.

The cards that are titled "Muster Roll" or "Company Muster Roll" are effectively payroll records. As a rule, both armies were paid on the last day of February, April, June, August, October, and December. So a muster roll for "Nov +Dec, 1863" is the payroll record for that period. Such a card does not mean that he was present on every day during that period. Each card will typically note that the soldier was "Present", "Absent", "On Detached Service" etc. on the last day of that period. But in the interim he may have been in the hospital, on furlough, etc., on specific days. Long absences during the two-month period are sometimes noted/explained in the notes or on other cards - but not always.

So I'm sorry to say that the fact that he was "Present" on a "Nov + Dec, 1863" muster roll card does not mean that he fought in every battle in which the regiment participated during that period. His presence on specific dates can really only be "proved" though a mention of his name in the relevant ORs ("Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies"), soldier letters, other contemporary accounts, monuments, etc.

But there are errors in those types of records too, unfortunately. The Pennsylvania State Memorial at Gettysburg purports to reflect the name of every one of the 34500+ soldiers who served with a Pennsylvania regiment during that battle as reflected on the original muster roll of 30 June 1863 which, as luck would have it, was the day before the battle started. But even so, in the 112 years since it was constructed, hundreds of names have been added and deleted from that monument when conflicting evidence was judged to more accurate about the soldiers' presence during the battle. Today there are dozens of known errors on the monument but corrections are no longer being made.

The records cited by @East Tennessee Roots above were transcribed from a book that was published in 1960 so it too is probably largely accurate but not a primary source.

I'm sorry that I don't have better news for you.

 

[lupaglupa]

His presence on specific dates can really only be "proved" though a mention of his name in the relevant ORs ("Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies"), soldier letters, other contemporary accounts, monuments, etc.

This is the frustrating standard you'll have to meet if you want to be absolutely sure. It sounds like you have his pension record. Usually those do not mention all battles, just injuries that contribute to getting payments for a disability.

Finding letters and/or diaries for a specific regiment or company is a chore and even when you do find someone you may find they did not mention your ancestor. It could be worth trying though. Here are a few places to look:

Civil War Diaries

::: Civil War Letters Collection :::

A selection of original Civil War correspondence between soldiers from the battlefields and their family members and friends on the homefront.

content.lib.washington.edu

https://billyyankjohnnyreb.wordpress.com/2015/12/05/list-of-soldiers-letters/

Private Voices | Corpus of American Civil War Letters

altchive.org

 

[lupaglupa]

One more place to look is in old newspapers. Obituaries often listed battles the deceased fought in and sometimes as the veterans got older they were profiled in the local paper - or their compatriots were and mentioned them.

 

[Tjw16g]

This is the frustrating standard you'll have to meet if you want to be absolutely sure. It sounds like you have his pension record. Usually those do not mention all battles, just injuries that contribute to getting payments for a disability.

Finding letters and/or diaries for a specific regiment or company is a chore and even when you do find someone you may find they did not mention your ancestor. It could be worth trying though. Here are a few places to look:

Thank you for your response. I will look to see if I can find anything. Can you tell me what exactly that service record that I posted is saying? He was captured at Champion Hill in May 1863. That record states that he was present to June 30, 1863 as of July 19th 1863. It says that it is from a muster roll of paroled prisoners. So is that saying that he was present from his enlistment in March 1862 to June 30th 1863 or what exactly does it mean?

I doubt that I will ever find conclusive evidence of Perryville, Resaca, or New Hope Church. The 41st Georgia seems to have unusually lacking records. Most soldiers tend to have their enlistment date and then the November+December roll. The exceptions are soldiers who were detailed, wounded, killed, discharged, or captured in between those dates. If you could tell me what that to June 30th date likely meant I would be grateful.

 

[Tjw16g]

The CMSRs are "Compiled Military Service Records" and the first word is the most significant in this context. These records were compiled starting in 1890 for use by the Record and Pension Division of the War Department. So they are not themselves primary sources but they were compiled from primary sources, including muster rolls, hospital rolls, POW records (Union and Confederate), and others. It was a double-blind project (two independent data entry processes and a third to reconcile any conflicts) so they tend to be very accurate - by which I mean that they almost always accurately reflect the original records. Those original records were sometimes wrong, however.

The cards that are titled "Muster Roll" or "Company Muster Roll" are effectively payroll records. As a rule, both armies were paid on the last day of February, April, June, August, October, and December. So a muster roll for "Nov +Dec, 1863" is the payroll record for that period. Such a card does not mean that he was present on every day during that period. Each card will typically note that the soldier was "Present", "Absent", "On Detached Service" etc. on the last day of that period. But in the interim he may have been in the hospital, on furlough, etc., on specific days. Long absences during the two-month period are sometimes noted/explained in the notes or on other cards - but not always.

So I'm sorry to say that the fact that he was "Present" on a "Nov + Dec, 1863" muster roll card does not mean that he fought in every battle in which the regiment participated during that period. His presence on specific dates can really only be "proved" though a mention of his name in the relevant ORs ("Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies"), soldier letters, other contemporary accounts, monuments, etc.

But there are errors in those types of records too, unfortunately. The Pennsylvania State Memorial at Gettysburg purports to reflect the name of every one of the 34500+ soldiers who served with a Pennsylvania regiment during that battle as reflected on the original muster roll of 30 June 1863 which, as luck would have it, was the day before the battle started. But even so, in the 112 years since it was constructed, hundreds of names have been added and deleted from that monument when conflicting evidence was judged to more accurate about the soldiers' presence during the battle. Today there are dozens of known errors on the monument but corrections are no longer being made.

The records cited by @East Tennessee Roots above were transcribed from a book that was published in 1960 so it too is probably largely accurate but not a primary source.

I'm sorry that I don't have better news for you.

His pension record is where that information originally came from. I have that record. I am aware that I will be unlikely to prove conclusively that he was at Perryville, Missionary Ridge, Resaca, or New Hope Church. He was captured at Champion Hill and wounded at Atlanta so his presence there is proven. I am really curious as to what the meaning of the service record I posted means. The "to June 30th" dated July 19th 1863. I suppose it could actually be a "for June 30th" although that wouldn't make sense since he was captured in May and was not paroled until July. Is that "to June 30th" stating that he was present from March 1862 to June 30th 1863 in the sense of his payroll record for November + December 1863?

Records for the 41st GA seem unusually scarce. Most soldiers have their initial enlistment and then being recorded as present in November + December 1863. The only exceptions to that are soldiers who were detailed, wounded, discharged, deserted, killed, or captured in between that time. So the bulk of soldiers have no record from March 1862 when the unit was organized and December 1863. Few soldiers have records from then until the end of the war unless they were detailed, wounded, discharged, deserted, killed, or captured in between December 1863 and the close of the war.

 

[RedRover]

I am really curious as to what the meaning of the service record I posted means. The "to June 30th" dated July 19th 1863. I suppose it could actually be a "for June 30th" although that wouldn't make sense since he was captured in May and was not paroled until July. Is that "to June 30th" stating that he was present from March 1862 to June 30th 1863 in the sense of his payroll record for November + December 1863?

The Statement on the card means that the roll was correct up to June 30, but was compiled/written out/submitted to higher headquarters, etc. on July 19. It is not a unit muster-roll per se, but of a "detachment" of paroled prisoners from this regiment. It means he was present with that detachment, rather than with the regiment, up to and on June 30.

His US Army prisoner of war record shows that he was "exchanged" on July 4:

He and his chums had already been "paroled" and released from prison, back to Confederate custody. The "parole" of each man pledged he would not to take up arms again until officially "exchanged" by the cartel between the two armies which swapped prisoners, man for man, etc. Paroled men were kept separate from their units, until "exchanged" which for Mr. White took place on July 4, from which date the CS Army was free to return him to his unit for active service... The Federals recorded his date of capture, and exchange in case he was taken in arms again prior to that date...

For example, here Gen. Butler at New Orleans condemns six CSA prisoners taken in arms in spite of their parole (before being officially "exchanged" and released from the parole), to death.

Here is an example of a parole of a captured Confederate soldier:

 

[Tjw16g]

The Statement on the card means that the roll was correct up to June 30, but was compiled/written out/submitted to higher headquarters, etc. on July 19. It is not a unit muster-roll per se, but of a "detachment" of paroled prisoners from this regiment. It means he was present with that detachment, rather than with the regiment, up to and on June 30.

His US Army prisoner of war record shows that he was "exchanged" on July 4:

View attachment 441121

He and his chums had already been "paroled" and released from prison, back to Confederate custody. The "parole" of each man pledged he would not to take up arms again until officially "exchanged" by the cartel between the two armies which swapped prisoners, man for man, etc. Paroled men were kept separate from their units, until "exchanged" which for Mr. White took place on July 4, from which date the CS Army was free to return him to his unit for active service... The Federals recorded his date of capture, and exchange in case he was taken in arms again prior to that date...

For example, here Gen. Butler at New Orleans condemns six CSA prisoners taken in arms in spite of their parole (before being officially "exchanged" and released from the parole), to death.
View attachment 441122

Here is an example of a parole of a captured Confederate soldier:
View attachment 441128

So in short it's saying he was present from the time after May when he was captured and paroled along with a detachment of 41st soldiers until June 30th?

It's frustrating that there are these giant blocks from March 63 to May 63 and then from December 63 until July 64 when he was wounded per his pension. His pension then covers the time from July 64 to the close of the war when he surrendered in May 65.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

from December 63 until July 64

If he was paroled at Champions Hill in May 1863, He couldn't take up arms again until he was exchanged. This could explain the lack of activity until he rejoined the army in Georgia.

 

[huskerblitz]

If there are Consolidated Morning Reports for that regiment and for that month that may answer your question if your ancestor was present that particular day.

 

[lupaglupa]

These frustrating gaps are quite common - you've got a lot of company is wishing there were more records! But records were lost and/or destroyed during the War and there are gaps. You might try contacting the Georgia State Archives to see if they have any additional records from this regiment.