If the South Had Won

[Daniel Smothegrill]

Cokie Roberts' Capital Dames emphasizes the conflict leading up to the War about whether slavery would be allowed in the territories. My question is, Even if the South had gained independence wouldn't those territories still have belonged to the US and presumably been Free? If so, what was the point of the territories in fighting the War?

 

[CMWinkler]

Welcome

 

[Stony]

Welcome.

 

[major bill]

Hello Daniel Smothegrill. No the Confederate States claimed some of the territories, so there would have been some agreement between the United States and the Confederate States over the distribution of the territories. The Confederacy wanted New Mexico, Colorado and Utah. The Confederacy could have sent arms to territories to help the territory make its own decision as to if the territory wanted to join the United States or the Confederacy. Look at the Confederate Constitution in the section about allowing territories to joi9n the Confederate. Also any territory could conceivably allowed slavery until slavery was banned in the United States. It would have also been possible for the Confederacy to send armed forces into any territory to "help the territory" gain their rights.

It is possible the territories would have been divided peacefully, but it is also possible that the territory issues would have been decided by force of arms.

 

[Dave Wilma]

Cokie Roberts' Capital Dames emphasizes the conflict leading up to the War about whether slavery would be allowed in the territories. My question is, Even if the South had gained independence wouldn't those territories still have belonged to the US and presumably been Free? If so, what was the point of the territories in fighting the War?

As posted above, the issue of the territories would not be resolved just by secession. Slavery would still be legal in the U.S. (not for long very likely) as would slavery in the territories. Successful secession would shift the conflict out west.

Another issue would be navigation on the Mississippi River. Although railroads were growing at a breakneck pace, most of the bounty of the Old Northwest went downriver to New Orleans. What impact would a CSA blockade or customs structure have on relations?

The slaveholding CSA would be relatively isolated as a nation state. An activist Republican administration might seek European support for some sort of economic sanctions or Britain and France might decide on their own to shun the CSA.

The great thing about speculative history is that you are always right.

 

[brass napoleon]

Cokie Roberts' Capital Dames emphasizes the conflict leading up to the War about whether slavery would be allowed in the territories. My question is, Even if the South had gained independence wouldn't those territories still have belonged to the US and presumably been Free? If so, what was the point of the territories in fighting the War?

Welcome to the forum, Daniel. It's a great question and strikes directly at the crux of the issue. If the Confederacy had won the war, who was going to stop them from going west and claiming any territory that they wanted (assuming they hadn't already done so during the course of the war)? Recall that within the first year of the war the Confederacy invaded and attempted to capture New Mexico territory.

 

[major bill]

For the Confederate hope for a slave empire in South America to become a reality, a port on the Pacific Ocean would be important. So extending the Confederacy to the Pacific via either in Mexico or Southern California would have been needed. In many ways taking southern California would make the most sense.

 

[Pat Young]

Welcome from Long Island where we are getting the nicest weather of the whole year this weekend.

 

[KScott]

Not what you're asking, but if the South had won, there would have been important global implications for the future. If there had not been a strong, united America to defend Europe and elsewhere during World Wars I and II, much of the world would be speaking German as its official language, today.

 

[major bill]

Th South dreamed of a vast slave empire through out North and South America, but I have serious doubts this would have occurred. I have always predicted that by 1900 an economy based on slave labor would be at a disadvantage when competing with nations with a free labor based economy. By the 1940s the Confederacy would have had difficultly maintaining a viable economy based on slave labor but have been unable to convert to a free labor system. In 1942 the last Christian nation ended slavery but slavery did continue for a few more decades in a couple of Judeo-Christian-Islamic nations.

 

[Patrick H]

Hi, Daniel and welcome.

 

[brass napoleon]

Not what you're asking, but if the South had won, there would have been important global implications for the future. If there had not been a strong, united America to defend Europe and elsewhere during World Wars I and II, much of the world would be speaking German as its official language, today.

Welkommen zu civilwartalk!

 

[Dave Wilma]

Th South dreamed of a vast slave empire through out North and South America, but I have serious doubts this would have occurred. I have always predicted that by 1900 an economy based on slave labor would be at a disadvantage when competing with nations with a free labor based economy. By the 1940s the Confederacy would have had difficultly maintaining a viable economy based on slave labor but have been unable to convert to a free labor system. In 1942 the last Christian nation ended slavery but slavery did continue for a few more decades in a couple of Judeo-Christian-Islamic nations.

As long as slavery was profitable and the host country was willing to devote resources to the control of the slave population and to endure the constant fear of the enslaved population, the institution would continue. Brazil managed a fairly peaceful process of emancipation, but slavery there was different than in the U.S. with less blatant repression.