Collection Identified Confederate Sword (long post)

[Richard E. Schenk]

I'm just an amateur here, but when I first saw that sword, I was sure it was an Ames sword. So that I can understand better, you don't think it is? Would the Springfield Amory in Springfield, Mass know by looking at the pictures. I have an Ames Civil War foot officer's sword dated, I believe from my memory 1861 and there is so much here that looks similar except the scabbard on this one looks like sharkskin, just like the handle. I didn't know they would make a scabbard out of sharkskin. Please explain.

The M1850 foot officer's sword was essentially an exact copy of the French Mle 1845 and they all, whether made by Ames, Horstmann, Roby, Clauberg or other makers, pretty much looked the same although they could differ in minor detail. Attached is a typical Ames hilt with laurel leaves (left) and a Horstmann hilt with Oak leaves (right). As for the scabbard, plain leather was the standard but sharkskin was an expensive alternative option which could be special ordered.

 

[Glen_C]

One place we find the sharkskin scabbards is the 'Stockton Blues' with Horstmann marked naval blades. Flayderman and Mowbray list those as likely a Bannerman productions.

https://www.michaeldlong.com/product/american-naval-marine-officers-sword-1815-by-horstmann/

We also see a lot of the French model 1821 with sharkskin grips.

 

[Cavalier]

@Glen_C Would shark skin have been more durable than regular leather?

John

 

[Glen_C]

@Glen_C Would shark skin have been more durable than regular leather?

John

don't own one but they may well be glued on steel tubes

 

[Cavalier]

@Glen_C Ok, thanks very much.

John

 

[TLHS]

I'm just an amateur here, but when I first saw that sword, I was sure it was an Ames sword. So that I can understand better, you don't think it is? Would the Springfield Amory in Springfield, Mass know by looking at the pictures. I have an Ames Civil War foot officer's sword dated, I believe from my memory 1861 and there is so much here that looks similar except the scabbard on this one looks like sharkskin, just like the handle. I didn't know they would make a scabbard out of sharkskin. Please explain.

Good morning,
I believe the Model 1850 Foot Officers is an import from France or Prussia marketed possibly by Horstmann in Philadelphia. If you look on the top of the blade near the guard, you may find the name of the maker engraved. Congratulations on a nice piece.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

@Glen_C Would shark skin have been more durable than regular leather?

John

Maybe, but mainly gave a firmer, non-slip grip and also looked better/more expensive.

 

[Cavalier]

@Richard E. Schenk Thank you. It does look more "exotic".

John

 

[TLHS]

Yes, I can agree in principle; however, this neat piece does conform to the US Model 1850 Foot Officer's (with an unique M1852 Naval Pommel) that were manufactured from 1850 until replaced by the Model 1872. With the GV etching on the blade does seem to narrow usage down to Pre Civil War to include 61to 65

 

[PemberEducator]

I was excited to come across your post because we have basically the same sword in our collection. Though ours lack the fancy floral engraving. It belonged to Captain Henry O. Wiley of the 123rd NY Volunteer Infantry who mustered in to Company K on September 4, 1862. The sword was a gift from his company, engraved by Tiffany (I assume) and manufactured by Ames. Capt. Wiley died in the Battle of Peach Tree Creek, Georgia and his sword and revolver made it back to his widow and somehow made its way to our museum. There are two scabbards...one leather and the other is metal.

 

[Cavalier]

@PemberEducator That is nice! Thanks for the photos.

John

 

[scooter748driver]

Good morning,
I believe the Model 1850 Foot Officers is an import from France or Prussia marketed possibly by Horstmann in Philadelphia. If you look on the top of the blade near the guard, you may find the name of the maker engraved. Congratulations on a nice piece.

I've looked with as much light and with as much magnification as I could. What I did find is a very light IRON PROOF on the top of the blade near the guard.

I need to read up on this in my Thillmanns book, but I'm thinking this would be a German blade or even a German made sword marketed by Horstmann. Just speculation for now but hopefully a step closer to knowing more.

 

[wwf]

My understanding (which is very rudimentary) is that swords could be ordered in a variety of styles, finishes, etc. I suppose that this one was ordered with some "non-standard" features such as shark skin grip & scabbard, naval style pommel, etc. to make it different or unique. Without knowing who ordered it, when and why, etc I don't think we'll ever know why it's the way it is. There are many styles of swords that are "one offs" or whatever that were special ordered for individuals.

I'm intrigued by the comment about the oak leaves vs. laurels being an indicator of the sword being made (or at least assembled by) Horstmann. I need to read more about that.

Minor point: my Ames M1850 (1861 inspected by JH, issued to my 2g-uncle) has the laurel.