How to re-set a CW marker

[John Winn]

Some of you know that I do cemetery preservation/restoration work and I've sometimes been asked how one would re-set a CW marker. I've taught people how to do this in workshops but am reluctant to try to teach such on-line only. However, I've recently become a fan of this guy's videos and so thought I'd post this one where he re-sets a stone (the correct way). The only thing I do differently is to pack the gravel using a tamping tool and some water before I put in the dirt. But that's a bit nitpicky (as I am wont to be).

Notice that he measures to get the correct setting level. The prescribed above-ground distance varies according to the age of the stone as the measurements of the stones have changed over the years. The one he's setting weighs about 200 pounds but modern ones weigh about 240 pounds. We rarely use a hoist for the older ones but if there's only one of you then, yeah.

Unfortunately, it's fairly common to discover that some time in the distant past somebody dug up the stone and set it in a big puddle of concrete. When you find that then it'll be a lot heavier and more difficult to deal with. We can sometimes knock most of the concrete off but not always and you have to be very careful not to break the stone (marble is pretty soft). I only mention that because things often aren't what you expected below ground and you need to be prepared.

This guy was trained by Jon Appell who is one of the better-known cemetery preservationists in the country (and founder of Atlas Preservation, a company I've used for many years). Jon is the guy who was asked to repair what's considered to be the oldest grave marker in north America - i.e. at Jamestown, Virginia. He's a great guy and if you're the real thing he's willing to talk to you on the phone.

So, just to CMA, you need to make sure you really know what you are doing and, more importantly, that you have legal permission to do it before you tackle something like this.

Anyway, just thought some of you cemeterians might find this of interest.

 

[Sundance]

Very interesting - thank you. I take it these markers sink over time (or is this out of the ordinary) although I'd expect them to have some sort of base/foundation to prevent that.

 

[John Winn]

Very interesting - thank you. I take it these markers sink over time (or is this out of the ordinary) although I'd expect them to have some sort of base/foundation to prevent that.

You are most welcome. Glad you found it of interest.

They do sink; how much depends on slope and soil type and frost heaval and moisture levels and such. Anyway, they're designed to just be ground supported - i.e. not to have bases. What's shown is how they're set in national cemeteries. Some people, though, in private cemeteries will glue or mortar them to bases (not supplied by the government) or, as I said, pour a puddle of concrete and sink them into that. I've seen a number of them that were cut shorter and then mortared to a base.

Sometimes adding a base can help to slow sinking but won't generally prevent leaning, especially if the stone isn't on flat ground. The 'stuff' below ground actually acts something like a sail in the wind on sloped ground, just adding surface area against which the soil can push. Gravel is used because it allows for drainage and can expand and contract somewhat without pushing over the stone.

Stones have to be periodically re-set in national cemeteries as they sink and the cemeteries want them to all be at the same height and in a neat line. If you've got a small excavator the job's a lot easier and quicker.

In a national cemetery - or anywhere that has a large military section - what you do is find the stones that are correct, dig up the sinkers and leaners in between leaving a trench, run string lines between the correct stones on either end of the trench (for alignment and elevation), and then line up all the dug up ones to the string lines and fill in the trench. Good for another fifty years.

 

[CowCavalry]

There is a guy on instagram who restores markers.

 

[lupaglupa]

Thanks for sharing this. The stones around here are so eroded I'd be wary of handling them as much as this requires. As it is the information on the stones is almost impossible to decipher.

 

[John Winn]

Thanks for sharing this. The stones around here are so eroded I'd be wary of handling them as much as this requires. As it is the information on the stones is almost impossible to decipher.

My pleasure. Upright military stones are usually pretty solid - they being four inches thick - and can be dug up and moved around without much risk but one always has to check carefully before trying to re-set any stone marker.

 

[Rebforever]

My pleasure. Upright military stones are usually pretty solid - they being four inches thick - and can be dug up and moved around without much risk but one always has to check carefully before trying to re-set any stone marker.

And they do weigh 250 lbs.

 

[John Winn]

And they do weigh 250 lbs.

Actually, the modern ones are 240 . The older ones are a little less as they aren't as wide and, in some cases, not as long. But they're still heavy. That's one of the reasons doing marker repairs isn't a one-person job. If you know how, though, you can leverage them out of a hole and walk them back in without throwing out your back.

 

[bdtex]

Some of you know that I do cemetery preservation/restoration work and I've sometimes been asked how one would re-set a CW marker. I've taught people how to do this in workshops but am reluctant to try to teach such on-line only. However, I've recently become a fan of this guy's videos and so thought I'd post this one where he re-sets a stone (the correct way). The only thing I do differently is to pack the gravel using a tamping tool and some water before I put in the dirt. But that's a bit nitpicky (as I am wont to be).

I've certainly run across a few stones that need that. I remember which cemeteries too. Some aren't in Texas.

 

[John Winn]

I've certainly run across a few stones that need that. I remember which cemeteries too. Some aren't in Texas.

It's pretty common. I consider most of them to be fairly easy fixes but you do have to have the tools and some gravel; and preferably an assistant. A tripod hoist is a great thing to have (as in the video), especially if you're going to do it solo. Such can be made easily but you have to buy the hoisting mechanism and some straps (but not too expensive). However, if there's two people you can get them out of the hole with a pry bar and a couple of 2x4's with less effort than having to have a hoist (but there is a certain finesse of technique).

In the cemetery where I mostly work (other than workshops) we've got a tool house with everything, a large pile of gravel, and the use of a 4x4 Gator utility vehicle. If we really need to lift something heavy I call the sexton and he brings up the excavator and we can move just about anything.

For a true nomad like you you'd need to put together all the stuff and load it all up in your truck (assuming you have one), including buying bags of gravel. There are people who do it but I'm too old for that now. And it's got to be good weather, too.

 

[lupaglupa]

you'd need to put together all the stuff and load it all up in your truck

This basically describes every Saturday morning for @bdtex

 

[bdtex]

This basically describes every Saturday morning for @bdtex

Actually, it describes Friday nights. I'm up at 4am on Saturdays and rolling by 4:30 - 5am on Saturday mornings.

 

[Northstep]

Actually, it describes Friday nights. I'm up at 4am on Saturdays and rolling by 4:30 - 5am on Saturday mornings.

Bless you for the work you do and this post. I, too, am a big fan of Jon Appell. His work is incredible.
It makes me very sad when I see bad repairs. I wish the portland cement manufacturers would put a warning label on the bag that reads, "NOT for repairing headstones". I know people mean well, but they just don't understand.

 

[bdtex]

Bless you for the work you do and this post. I, too, am a big fan of Jon Appell. His work is incredible.
It makes me very sad when I see bad repairs. I wish the portland cement manufacturers would put a warning label on the bag that reads, "NOT for repairing headstones". I know people mean well, but they just don't understand.

I am mostly a gravestone cleaner. I operate solo and most needed repair jobs I run into are beyond my solo capabilities.

 

[Northstep]

I am mostly a gravestone cleaner. I operate solo and most needed repair jobs I run into are beyond my solo capabilities.

Well, if you think that's going to make me take back my blessing ...... Your cleaning is no less important to preservation than any other work and more so to intact stones that will last longer because of your care.