How Do You Track Your Currency Collection?

BillH

Corporal
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Location
SW Idaho
I started a new thread because I didn't want to interrupt the train of thought in the other one. I'm curious how everyone tracks/records their currency collections? I tried a software based stand alone on my computer many years ago but it seemed a bit unwieldy to me... meaning I didn't "love" it. I've always kept mine on printouts from the DVD on one of Pierre Fricke's books. Over time it gets smeared, erased, and generally too messy to use anymore so I start a new print of it, recording each note in my "main" line, and perhaps a note or two about some of the dupes or different PF #'s.

Now, the question I want to toss out to y'all is this... I've seen PMG has an online users' record of their collections, for PMG members I'm guessing. I've never looked into that particular resource. Have any of you? What do you think? Pros/cons? Do you use it? And whatever other thoughts you might have.
 
I started a new thread because I didn't want to interrupt the train of thought in the other one. I'm curious how everyone tracks/records their currency collections? I tried a software based stand alone on my computer many years ago but it seemed a bit unwieldy to me... meaning I didn't "love" it. I've always kept mine on printouts from the DVD on one of Pierre Fricke's books. Over time it gets smeared, erased, and generally too messy to use anymore so I start a new print of it, recording each note in my "main" line, and perhaps a note or two about some of the dupes or different PF #'s.

Now, the question I want to toss out to y'all is this... I've seen PMG has an online users' record of their collections, for PMG members I'm guessing. I've never looked into that particular resource. Have any of you? What do you think? Pros/cons? Do you use it? And whatever other thoughts you might have.
I've always done things the dinosaur way i guess. I'll make margin marks in my books of pieces I own. I also write down just on a spread sheet what it is. the cost, the purchase date and I assign a catalog number to it. I attach the info cards to the backs of the cases. As far as currency I haven't tried PMG online but I love anything slabbed from them. I only purchase from PMG for any antique US bills just because it's my preference but I do believe there is a database of serial numbers and Sheldon scale ratings for each slabbed piece they do. I guess that's supposed to deter counterfeiters in some way.
 
There's a question I forgot to ask, does anyone keep close records of what they paid for a note? Salterr, do you record cost for every note, or just the "speedy" ones? I have collections of other things and I've just never kept track of costs... I've seen different collectible markets go up down and sideways, and current market value seemed to me to be the only really important price info. I've purchased a trading card or a fountain pen or a camera and much later, for the few I've decided to sell off, the only consideration to me was "what does the market think of this item today?"... maybe I'm odd that way?
 
I don't really have enough of the notes to call a collection. I just happen to own some of them.That's not say I won't get down to some serious collecting someday but I should have done that years ago.I'm getting too old for this and got other "irons in the fire". This is close to where that it's almost time start "thinning the herd" alittle. Not buy more (as much as I want to). Plus the money factor. This is not a cheap hobby. We already spent $20,000 this year on remodeling and on a new water well. And I'm finding that having a good memory helps and I do not have one.Besides Fricke's book, I have another book that I write "things" about different notes. I use red ink to note the bills that I do have. So yeah, I do it the dinosaur way too.
 
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There's a question I forgot to ask, does anyone keep close records of what they paid for a note? Salterr, do you record cost for every note, or just the "speedy" ones? I have collections of other things and I've just never kept track of costs... I've seen different collectible markets go up down and sideways, and current market value seemed to me to be the only really important price info. I've purchased a trading card or a fountain pen or a camera and much later, for the few I've decided to sell off, the only consideration to me was "what does the market think of this item today?"... maybe I'm odd that way?
As far as US currency and civil war items, yes I track what I paid and then will go out and buy the latest price guide from R S Yeoman to track the bills and coins. For the civil war items I've spent the past 7 years compiling price fluctuations and taking screenshots with my phone to confirm what sells and for what prices. I have one book dedicated to bills which outlines the survival rate of each bill type but it's a tad dated but just by a few years. The only other prices I track are precious metals and what I paid for them so I can decide when it's good to sell them. I've bought a ton of collectible things in the past but for some reason never tracked them. After having the lightbulb clicking on over my head moment, I finally started tracking my prices. I can share some of my bills if you'd like. I've posted some confederate notes on here a while back but still have post war bills that I haven't shared just because they are not civil war.
 
As far as keeping track of what I have, while the collection was at home, all I had to do was look at the album. Now that it resides in a safe deposit box, the info is kept between my ears. I have a pretty good memory, reinforced by occasional visits to the bank. It's actually not too hard to remember most of it. For the type set, I know which six I don't have. (No points if you guess right.) For duplicates, it's gotten easier. Apart from the big six, I'm currently only missing five others for a second short set. Further multiples are a little trickier, and I sometimes find a note in the box that I forgot I had. Most of the interesting varieties I have, outside of the two type sets, I do remember.

I haven't always kept track of costs. Most of the more expensive ones I can remember, the common ones, not so much. I have been keeping track of more recent purchases, often because I got them at a good price, and consider them trade fodder, or sometimes material I can sell sub-retail for a small profit. I have been planning on going back and reconstructing records as much as possible, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I do have a small stack of old invoices scattered around.

As an old school collector, one who started before third party grading of currency, I have less faith in them than others. I've elsewhere expressed my views about their grading of uncirculated items. The middle grade stuff is a total mess. The standards seem to fluctuate with time. There are still a huge number of overgrades. Add to that, errors are common. I've seen a bunch of notes misidentified as to type, a bunch with misread handwritten serial numbers, and several misauthenticated notes. In fact, I've started to collect the last, adding a PMG graded T16 that's actually a counterfeit in just the last two weeks.

As for grading circulated notes, a debate once appeared on a (sadly, now defunct) Coins and Paper Money discussion board on eBay. I was strongly criticizing the TPGs. To make my point, I looked at some of the then current auctions, and by the third, I found a grossly overgraded note. I copied the scans of front and back, cropped off the label, and posted it to the thread, asking others to grade it. The responses included some stuff about people using different standards. So I went to the TPG's website and cut and pasted THEIR standards, requesting other board contributers to give their opinion based on the published criteria. The consensus was that the note in question was Very Good. I then posted the uncropped scans, showing the Very Fine label.

As to posting a collection to PMG's site, I'm only guessing, but they're probably only interested in things they have already graded. In general, I'd be leery about posting too many particulars about my collection anywhere on the Internet. With my opinions of TPGs in general, I'm not interested.
 
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...snip...

As to posting a collection to PMG's site, I'm only guessing, but they're probably only interested in things they have already graded. In general, I'd be leery about posting too many particulars about my collection anywhere on the Internet. With my opinions of TPGs in general, I'm not interested.
I think this is my hesitation too. I looked at a couple of the user submitted collections and it does appear to be all PMG graded notes. I know they apply a scoring system to the notes in order to supposedly make it easier to compare between collections. And while I understand doing it that way from PMG's perspective, from the collector's perspective it knocks out possibly a large part of his collection. Not being able to "count" the other companies' slabs or the non-TPG notes would put many, if not most, collections at a distinct disadvantage, not just in comparison to other collections but as a way to "see" the full extent of your own. I won't speculate on the possibility that the company hopes to receive a lot of notes submitted for grading or re-grading from another company ;-)
 
As far as keeping track of what I have, while the collection was at home, all I had to do was look at the album. Now that it resides in a safe deposit box, the info is kept between my ears. I have a pretty good memory, reinforced by occasional visits to the bank. It's actually not too hard to remember most of it. For the type set, I know which six I don't have. (No points if you guess right.) For duplicates, it's gotten easier. Apart from the big six, I'm currently only missing five others for a second short set. Further multiples are a little trickier, and I sometimes find a note in the box that I forgot I had. Most of the interesting varieties I have, outside of the two type sets, I do remember.

...snip...
Ah, a second short set... hmmm... proof that my wife does not read my mind... if she did, she would have said "DON'T even consider it!" 🤣 Great idea though.

Actually, I have been adding other things to my type collection. The checklist I use has a third page listing other things like watermarks, Trans-Miss, inverted back, plen differences, etc. And I added a fourth page for a list of all the known varieties of contemporary counterfeits.

Maybe my wife would be happier if I just collected a second type set? Hmmmm....
 
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I think this is my hesitation too. I looked at a couple of the user submitted collections and it does appear to be all PMG graded notes. I know they apply a scoring system to the notes in order to supposedly make it easier to compare between collections. And while I understand doing it that way from PMG's perspective, from the collector's perspective it knocks out possibly a large part of his collection. Not being able to "count" the other companies' slabs or the non-TPG notes would put many, if not most, collections at a distinct disadvantage, not just in comparison to other collections but as a way to "see" the full extent of your own. ...snip...
So I counted my set list and I have 19 slabbed by "other than PMG" and 7 not slabbed at all. The rest are PMG, 24 of which have a silver or gold sticker from Pierre Fricke... which may or may not be a comment on the grading itself (I'll not venture an opinion there, I don't know enough). I may spend a little more time on the PMG site later today after the thunderstorms roll in and see if I can learn any more about their record keeping rules for inputting your collection into their software. I will say, in the short time I looked at it yesterday it was interesting looking at the state of other collections.

I've been upgrading the collection as I find better notes. After seeing Bur Oak's comment about his second type set I'm curious to see what my own "second set" amounts to...?... maybe this weekend I'll try to do a second list for the "second string set".
 
I think this is my hesitation too. I looked at a couple of the user submitted collections and it does appear to be all PMG graded notes. I know they apply a scoring system to the notes in order to supposedly make it easier to compare between collections. And while I understand doing it that way from PMG's perspective, from the collector's perspective it knocks out possibly a large part of his collection. Not being able to "count" the other companies' slabs or the non-TPG notes would put many, if not most, collections at a distinct disadvantage, not just in comparison to other collections but as a way to "see" the full extent of your own. I won't speculate on the possibility that the company hopes to receive a lot of notes submitted for grading or re-grading from another company ;-)
It sounds like one of the "registry" gimmicks --- setting up competition between collectors. Those wanting to come out "on top" have to buy into the grading hype, and drive up the price of their slabbed notes to artificial levels, hopefully generating more money for the slabbers in the long run.
 
Ah, a second short set... hmmm... proof that my wife does not read my mind... if she did, she would have said "DON'T even consider it!" 🤣 Great idea though.
I didn't start out with a second set as a goal. Once the first one was completed, I upgraded some notes as I found better specimens I could afford. Eventually, some of the replaced notes were just too nice themselves to sell right away. Sometimes I would acquire an interesting variety that might not belong with my absolute best type notes. Also, I would sometimes pick up an occasional duplicate just because it was above average and going for a good price. As the number of duplicates increased, as did the number of types represented, I decided "Why not?"
 
The rest are PMG, 24 of which have a silver or gold sticker from Pierre Fricke... which may or may not be a comment on the grading itself (I'll not venture an opinion there, I don't know enough).
I think the stickers are an attempt to comment on the eye appeal (cut, color, etc.) for a note in that condition. With Confederate currency, there can be quite a bit of variation, and a note with above average eye appeal can be worth more than an average note in a higher technical grade. If he's commenting on the grade, then his standards are slipping.

One of the worst things about the whole TPG situation is that for some the plastic becomes the important part. I've seen coin dealers who will only deal with slabbed coins. That's because they don't know anything about coins! The slab labels and the Greysheet are the only things they know. Sadly, a lot of newer collectors are much the same. They have no knowledge other than what someone else puts on the label.

I consider it vitally important to study and learn for yourself. I think it's most important to learn to grade for yourself, preferably by old collector standards, NOT using third party graded material as any kind of reference. "Market grading" can get you burned. It's also necessary to be able to authenticate a note for yourself. I've seen too many mistakes.

I do sometimes buy slabbed notes, but I completely ignore the label, except for notations regarding tears or repairs. I grade the note myself and base my decision to buy or pass on that. The same goes for authenticity when a deceptive counterfeit is a possibility.
 
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I agree with your "eye appeal" comments. I see a lot of TPG notes that are "high grade" but have horrible trims or other issues. Because of the way Confederate currency was produced the variability is orders of magnitude greater than the currency we are "used to" in our every day money, both coins and bills. I see Fricke's stickers as one more piece of data about an individual note as compared to a pool of notes. Current US currency is "easy" because you have millions of examples that all started out exactly the same (essentially). Confederate notes are the product of so much hand-work it's difficult to imagine until you have seen how much variability there really is. I know when I first bought Fricke's book (the earlier huge sized 2005-ish edition) I had a few second thoughts because of how daunting it all seemed. Collecting US notes seems easy by comparison, you buy the catalog book, decide what you like and can afford, then go shopping. Not so with CSA notes. That's one place where the books come in handy, giving some insight into how a particular variety is found in the market, whether it's possible to find really well printed and cut specimens or if you're going to looking for "the least crummy one you can afford" 😅
 
So I counted my set list and I have 19 slabbed by "other than PMG" and 7 not slabbed at all. The rest are PMG, 24 of which have a silver or gold sticker from Pierre Fricke....
You've got me curious to inventory my collection. I need to visit the safe deposit box to add a couple of new purchases anyway. I know that all notes in my #1 album are raw. Most were purchased that way, but there are a scant few that were cut out of slabs. The majority of my duplicates were also purchased raw and of course still are. I think it would be interesting for me to know the totals of slabbed vs. raw.

With plastic distorting the market more and more, I'm glad I learned what I did when I did. There's less competition for unslabbed material, and bargains are often there to be had, while others fight over common stuff (often average or below average in terms of eye appeal) because of the label.
 
I have a couple notes in my "second string" that are slabbed but now don't seem to me to make the grade. The one I'm esp thinking of is very poorly cut... it's a nice note otherwise, but the cut is definitely off. I'm not sure what possessed me to buy it... must have seemed a bargain at the time.

Your comment about less competition for raw notes tempts me to start paying more attention... (like I need more notes).
 
I have a couple notes in my "second string" that are slabbed but now don't seem to me to make the grade. The one I'm esp thinking of is very poorly cut... it's a nice note otherwise, but the cut is definitely off. I'm not sure what possessed me to buy it... must have seemed a bargain at the time.

Your comment about less competition for raw notes tempts me to start paying more attention... (like I need more notes).
The first part of your post is why I encourage collectors to learn how to grade for themselves , and to use "old collector standards." There's a reason the suggested prices for slabbed notes in Fricke's 2014 book are generally below those for raw notes in the same nominal grade. As I posted elsewhere, since it's impossible to fold one side of a piece of paper, always grade from the "worse" side. It may be helpful to also grade from the bottom up. By that, I mean check to see if a note matches the description of a low grade, or if it's possibly better. If better, see if it makes a higher grade. When it fails to come up to the standards, you're done. Grading from the top down can lead one to be overly optimistic. If you grade harshly, it's hard to go too wrong.

Judging eye appeal is another thing. Knowing when eye appeal might make a given note worth more than another one in the same grade, or even in a higher technical grade, is probably more of an art than a science. That just takes experience and seeing thousands of notes. I suppose the Fricke stickers can sometimes help there, but I wouldn't rely too heavily on them. In addition to the fantasy I have of coming up with "BS" stickers for some slabs, I've also fantasized about making "agree," "disagree," and "are you kidding?" stickers for Fricke stickers. In fairness, I often agree with him, but we all have our own opinions.
 
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You've got me curious to inventory my collection. I need to visit the safe deposit box to add a couple of new purchases anyway. I know that all notes in my #1 album are raw. Most were purchased that way, but there are a scant few that were cut out of slabs. The majority of my duplicates were also purchased raw and of course still are. I think it would be interesting for me to know the totals of slabbed vs. raw.
Visited the bank today. I didn't have time to do a detailed survey, but leaving out the few counterfeits and misattributed slabs I have, the breakdown is: 178 raw, 35 slabbed. Probably most slabs are PMG. One or two Fricke stickers noticed. Of the notes I plan on taking to the local coin show Sunday and offering for sale, (included in the totals above) there are 13 raw and 4 slabbed.
 
Visited the bank today. I didn't have time to do a detailed survey, but leaving out the few counterfeits and misattributed slabs I have, the breakdown is: 178 raw, 35 slabbed. Probably most slabs are PMG. One or two Fricke stickers noticed. Of the notes I plan on taking to the local coin show Sunday and offering for sale, (included in the totals above) there are 13 raw and 4 slabbed.
Care to share the slabbed ones with us? You never know, there might be a buyer here too... or Monday, if you have to bring them home.
 
Care to share the slabbed ones with us? You never know, there might be a buyer here too... or Monday, if you have to bring them home.
Not interested in the better ones? Okay. The slabs are:
T18 -- scarcer Second Series. PMG VF20. Nearly full borders. Clean. (F+)
T37 -- PMG EF40 "Minor Restoration" I can't find it. Tight but full borders. Looks unc. from front at first glance. Tiny wax-like stain, about 1.5 mm in diameter. Tough type to find this nice.
T41 (PF22) -- PMG Ch. AU, EPQ Full borders, slightly tight on left. Minor ink smear, possibly as printed, at top of Calhoun's portrait.
T46 -- PCGS VF30 -- Fairly tight cut, but full borders. (VF) Bright. Serial numbers faint.
 

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