How did anyone survive it?!?!?!

keith herring

Private
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Hello fellas. I went out a few days ago with a buddy to do some shooting. I had my 42 springfield loaded with buck&ball, and he was shooting his 53 enfield. I took a large freezer box and cut it to be 5 infantrymen standing shoulder to shoulder. They were about the sixe of an average man. We both did the mad minute, loading and firing as fast as we could for about 4-5 shots from 50 yards. Every "man" in the ranks was hit with either ball, minie ball, or buckshot pellet. How in the world did anyone survive this type of fighting. I know smoke covered the lines and alot of shots went wild but still.
 
And I read that at Gettysburg, I think, when they cleaned up the debris from the battlefield a good percentage of the guns had two or three cartridges in the barrel. In the excitement the soldier would not put on the cap and kept loading. With all the noise and smoke going on he would not know if he fired or not. I can't understand that but it could be possible.
 
And I read that at Gettysburg, I think, when they cleaned up the debris from the battlefield a good percentage of the guns had two or three cartridges in the barrel. In the excitement the soldier would not put on the cap and kept loading. With all the noise and smoke going on he would not know if he fired or not. I can't understand that but it could be possible.
Adrenalin and fear, intense excitement will do that to you. Fine motor skills deteriorate. Forgetting the cap, reversing the loading order and even shooting the ramrod down range were fairly common finds on all the battlefields.
 
WhenI was gunsmithing 40 years ago. when someone came with a gun that they coukdnot hit with if there were no aparentt problems with the gun I would have theme shoot with me loading, eaven with a 12 ga some would not realise that the gun didn't fire, when I loaded a dummy round so in the din of battle it is not surpisingthat someone didn't realise that there werapon didn' fire.
 
Adrenalin and fear, intense excitement will do that to you. Fine motor skills deteriorate. Forgetting the cap, reversing the loading order and even shooting the ramrod down range were fairly common finds on all the battlefields.
That would be one of many reasons that the spencer would be my gun of choice during the war.
 
It is somewhat amazing that many did survive the war. But many didn't. The technology far exceeded the old tactics of marching shoulder to shoulder, in an offensive attack. Such formations led to terrible casualty rates as seen at places like Shiloh, Antietam, Gettysburg and Cold Harbor.
Even with muzzleloading Enfield, Springfield rifles, and some smooth-bore muskets, the carnage was terrible. And if you were fortunate to survive to a makeshift field hospital, your wound often times was only treated by a surgeon, by sawing off what remained of an arm or leg.
By Cold Harbor, the great advantage laid in the defense. The offense continued to attack in shoulder to shoulder offense completely out in the open, while the Confederate defense was in dug out entrenched positions with only a small part of the body exposed to muzzleloading rifle fire.
 
My old history teacher back in 8th grade in the 70's, the one who opened my eyes to history being fascinating and took me on my first trip to Gettysburg, used to say that the ACW was the "first modern war fought with sticks and stones".

Obviously this was exaggeration to make a point, but he put a lot of emphasis on the fact that swords and pikes were still being used in combat and hand to hand combat often came down to swinging clubs (empty rifles) at each other, all while using tactics that left thousands of men lined up a hundred yards apart, shoulder to shoulder, obliterating each other with lead from cannon and rifle using technology that outpaced tactics.

B.
 
To expand a little on my earlier post, I think one thing worth considering is that battles didn't suddenly start with soldiers fifty yards apart, or even a hundred and fifty. Maneuvering, sending out skirmishers, and testing the enemy, were all part of the war, the biggest part actually, so most soldiers spent most of their time outside of enemy range or at the edge of it.

It made no sense from the point of view of either the men or their commanders to keep advancing until both sides were fifty yards apart and killing the majority of the enemy, if that would be the obvious predictable outcome. Ideally, you wanted to present that long impressive front to show you could dominate the enemy, who would soon recognize your superiority and surrender or retreat, rather than stand to be slaughtered in the vain hope of defeating you. Or, on the defensive side, you wanted to present fortifications and artillery so impressive no one would charge it, or you wanted to avoid getting in a situation where you were placing your own battle line against hopelessly superior numbers.

Unfortunately, battle reenactments usually present the war exclusively as close combat, and since those moments were most exciting, brief histories of the war focus on them, but in real life, the game of chicken, where both sides charged or at least stood their ground and neither side backed down, was extremely rare, compared to days of maneuvering, or building/digging fortifications. All that marching, living in camps and digging in the mud took a health toll, hence the greater death from disease than bullets.

That's the extent of my knowledge of military tactics, and I'm not even sure I have that right, so hopefully someone who actually knows the philosophy of warfare in the period will come along and pick apart my post, and point out the few things I got right, if any, LOL!
 
James B White said:
To expand a little on my earlier post, I think one thing worth considering is that battles didn't suddenly start with soldiers fifty yards apart, or even a hundred and fifty. Maneuvering, sending out skirmishers, and testing the enemy, were all part of the war, the biggest part actually, so most soldiers spent most of their time outside of enemy range or at the edge of it.

It made no sense from the point of view of either the men or their commanders to keep advancing until both sides were fifty yards apart and killing the majority of the enemy, if that would be the obvious predictable outcome. Ideally, you wanted to present that long impressive front to show you could dominate the enemy, who would soon recognize your superiority and surrender or retreat, rather than stand to be slaughtered in the vain hope of defeating you. Or, on the defensive side, you wanted to present fortifications and artillery so impressive no one would charge it, or you wanted to avoid getting in a situation where you were placing your own battle line against hopelessly superior numbers.

Unfortunately, battle reenactments usually present the war exclusively as close combat, and since those moments were most exciting, brief histories of the war focus on them, but in real life, the game of chicken, where both sides charged or at least stood their ground and neither side backed down, was extremely rare, compared to days of maneuvering, or building/digging fortifications. All that marching, living in camps and digging in the mud took a health toll, hence the greater death from disease than bullets.

That's the extent of my knowledge of military tactics, and I'm not even sure I have that right, so hopefully someone who actually knows the philosophy of warfare in the period will come along and pick apart my post, and point out the few things I got right, if any, LOL!

I think you are spot on with this. Closing with the enemy was on a scale meant to maneuver them off the field, around them if possible and through them after they were forced to break.

We do tend to glorify the humanity and the test of courage in the bold charge or the press of brigades and divisions upon an open field that confronts an enemy line in like position in a face to face brawl but it was not what any commander wanted or relished.

Also, the number of killed is always lower than that of wounded upon a field return and a heck of a lot of lead was sent downrange before anything was hit at all. You were more likely to die of disease than you were to die of a mini ball or grape shot.
 
Was just reading through for novel research on Iuka and came across the following report of the 11th Missouri, Stanley's 2nd Division Army of the MIssissippi commanded at the time by Major Webber, Colonel Mower in command of the 2nd Brigade. The relevant section being the encounter with the 37th Mississippi.

He claims to have come out of the woods and into an open field and face to face with an entire brigade, 30 paces separated them. Owing to a difference in elevation (the Mississippians being on higher ground) that he only suffered 7 killed and 60 wounded.

http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/c...aro0024;view=image;seq=104;page=root;size=100

Elevation was a big determination on the accuracy of fire, and it is probable that his own fire went over the Mississippian's heads.
 
Hello fellas. I went out a few days ago with a buddy to do some shooting. I had my 42 springfield loaded with buck&ball, and he was shooting his 53 enfield. I took a large freezer box and cut it to be 5 infantrymen standing shoulder to shoulder. They were about the sixe of an average man. We both did the mad minute, loading and firing as fast as we could for about 4-5 shots from 50 yards. Every "man" in the ranks was hit with either ball, minie ball, or buckshot pellet. How in the world did anyone survive this type of fighting. I know smoke covered the lines and alot of shots went wild but still.

Gee. The answer is simple. A hell of a lot did not survive. Its worse today of course. Civil War bad enough....but the sh..t out there today beyond muderous if ya get caught in it. We, lately, been fighting forces without the firepower we got. Yet we have not prevailed. Think about that. Why? Superior technology is NOT always the trump card against primitive and what I will call WILL. Vietnam War is a good place to begin with this odd kinda tech vs primitive warfare study. Asians learned a LOT with our engagment with them in Korean War. Lots. Korean War...where the Asians leaned all bout us and our high tech style.
 
Just look at the differing styles, weights, diameters, designs of bullets. Just the differing cavity styles of the many Arsenal produced Minnie balls...smooth sided, 2-3 ring types, all those variables, not mentioning the differing powder lots, weights of powder loads behind the bullets. Look at this site to see the differences...
http://www.tennesseelead.com/page-one.html

Read the degree with which this man wrote of what it takes to shoot accurately...
http://www.n-ssa.org/NATIONAL/CONTRIB/bagdon.html

Also the training (lack of) of your average soldier in shooting discipline would have a lot to do with accuracy.

Kevin Dally
 

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