horses

[ntsb]

Horses were used extensively throughout the war, as we all know. They suffered casualties in battles, and during marches and in camp. I often wonder how so many horses were obtained and replaced . So many were needed that they could not have been obtained mainly by soldiers supplying their own, or by "requisitioning" from the locals, could they? Were there large government run stables to raise and train horses? Following battles, who cared for the wounded horses? There is so much to think about in this regard, but I never seem to come across it in my reading.

 

[Mike Serpa]

From "Horses and Mules in the Civil War." Chapter 2 - Recruiting the Equines

https://books.google.com/books?id=j...LpIgKHb3MBpg#v=onepage&q=giesboro, md&f=false

Storage facilities at the Giesboro cavalry depot. LOC #08285

Link to a dozen or more photos of Giesboro - http://www.loc.gov/photos/?q=giesboro

 

[Tom Elmore]

(Daily Dispatch of Richmond, dtd 3 Sep 1863, regarding the Confederate cavalry.) At present each man furnishes his own horse, and is allowed 40 cents a day for keeping him ($146 annually), about one fifth part of the sum to obtain a good, serviceable (not a fine) horse. The cavalry service is very hard upon the horses. Forage is frequently scarce, and the horses very often compelled to put up with the scantiest possible fare. Moreover, they are required to be constantly in motion, often after a shoe or two had been lost. Under these circumstances it is not wonderful that the destruction of horseflesh is enormous, and troopers, often dismounted, are compelled probably for days to follow the wagon trains. The Government pays for no horses but such as are killed in battle. When the trooper loses a horse he is compelled to buy another out of his own purse, and as not many of them are rich, it goes particularly hard with them. Few of them are able to withstand a repetition of the process, now that the most ordinary horse sells for five or six hundred dollars.

(John N. Opie, A Rebel Cavalryman with Lee, Stuart and Jackson, from the 6th Virginia Cavalry) When a cavalryman lost his horse, he was put in what, in soldier parlance, was called Company "Q." The men were required to own their horses. Some men went home to find another and never returned.

(Ulysses R. Brooks, Butler and his Cavalry in the War of Secession, 1861-1865) About 1/3 of our horses and equipments were captured from the Federals. ... for every horse killed in battle the government paid its owner the appraised valuation, Confederate cavalry horses being private property.

(Circular, Headquarters, Army of Northern Virginia., June 13, 1863) If a non-commissioned officer or private in any department of service requiring him to be mounted, shall, with the consent of his commanding officers, furnish a serviceable horse, he will be allowed for the use and risk of the same, the compensation provided by law for cavalry horses. By command of General Lee.

 

[zburkett]

If I remember my history right, Grant came into the battle of the Wilderness with 150,000 horses.

 

[Allie]

The Southern claims commission records are a good place to find accounts of Union officers requisitioning horses. In one case, I was researching the Curlin family of Union City, who had been visited by someone requisitioning for Bradford, when I noticed a second claim by the officer accused of stealing the horses in the first claim. The "bummer" had his own horses stolen by another company!

Given the year to breed a horse and the three years to get it to a rideable state, there wasn't really time for a breeding program. As I recall, there were Army breeding programs for Morgans established in the decades after the war.

 

[ole]

Only a fool would mistreat a horse. Especially if the horse figured largely in one's livelihood.

Horses are magnificent beasts, bit quite stupid. They will work until they die. The trick is to keep them from working themselves to death.

Ride a horse for a week without making sure it is fed and watered daily, and the horse will break down and maybe die.

Before a cavalryman could make dinner, he had to take care of his horse. But we're not talking about teamsters or artillerymen.

Horses paid a horrible price. Neglect. Targets. Overworked.

Reminds me of The Dad's horses. Prince and Queen. Roanie. Star (the killer), and Flicka (who also didn't work out).

 

[Aussie Billy Sherman]

This reminds me of the great Lincoln quote where he said he could make generals but not horses. This was after Mosby captured a Union general out of his bed at night in Virginia. Cant think of that generals name though. To Lincoln, the horses were a more valuable resource.

 

[Mike Serpa]

This reminds me of the great Lincoln quote where he said he could make generals but not horses. This was after Mosby captured a Union general out of his bed at night in Virginia. Cant think of that generals name though. To Lincoln, the horses were a more valuable resource.

Mosby is famous for carrying out a daring raid far inside Union lines at the Fairfax County courthouse in March 1863, where his men captured three Union officers, including Brig. Gen.Edwin H. Stoughton. Mosby wrote in his memoirs that he found Stoughton in bed and roused him with a "spank on his bare back." Upon being so rudely awakened the general indignantly asked what this meant. Mosby quickly asked if he had ever heard of "Mosby". The general replied, "Yes, have you caught him?" "I am Mosby," the Confederate ranger said. "Stuart's cavalry has possession of the Court House; be quick and dress." Mosby and his 29 men had captured a Union general, two captains, 30 enlisted men, and 58 horses without firing a shot. wikipedia

 

[Aussie Billy Sherman]

Mosby is famous for carrying out a daring raid far inside Union lines at the Fairfax County courthouse in March 1863, where his men captured three Union officers, including Brig. Gen.Edwin H. Stoughton. Mosby wrote in his memoirs that he found Stoughton in bed and roused him with a "spank on his bare back." Upon being so rudely awakened the general indignantly asked what this meant. Mosby quickly asked if he had ever heard of "Mosby". The general replied, "Yes, have you caught him?" "I am Mosby," the Confederate ranger said. "Stuart's cavalry has possession of the Court House; be quick and dress." Mosby and his 29 men had captured a Union general, two captains, 30 enlisted men, and 58 horses without firing a shot. wikipedia

cheers thanks Mike.

 

[EJ Zander]

More on Giesboro with more pics. Great subject.
http://civilwarwashingtondc1861-186.../geisborough-point-cavalry-depot-parking.html

 

[ntsb]

EJ,
that is a fantastic link. My office is just a stones throw away from the stables. Thanks for sharing. A lot of great information in there. Thanks to the other contributors as well. Great stuff for sure.

 

[zburkett]

A special order issued May 14, 1863 (after Chancellorsville) "...to examine and report upon the condition of certain horses in the possession of Captain R.M. Graves [in Orange County]." They were to state in their report what they considered the best disposition to be made of the horses - to turn out to graze, shoot or sell.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

You learn something new every day here (if you try,) Nice post.

 

[drezac]

although artillery would take good care of their horses, it was not always possible during the war.
just a few observations on horses from an artillery standpoint:

Chickamauga was a battle with a large loss of horses. Due to the terrain, the artillery action was at very close quarters (at times exchanging canister between batteries). both sides lost a large number of horses, and many guns changed hand multiple times as the lines moved since they did not have enough horses to take the artillery with them when they had to retreat.
Capt. Goodspeed of 1st Ohio Battery A wrote "Horses wounded 15, and in consequence of not unharnessing for six days and the hardship they have undergone, I will lose 25 more horses"

Pvt James Walker of Battery A wrote "any amount of horses starved to death at the picket rope for want of food"
these losses were not due to neglect, but the realities of combat on the battlefield - the need for continuous movement and the logistical problems of providing feed.

As far as feeding horses, I did some calculations and the logistics would be even difficult today.

From the field artillery manual regarding horses:
"The Daily allowance of oats, barley and corn is 12 pound;that of hay, 14 pounds."
One Battery would have 120 horses (for mounted. For horse artillery, add about 75 more)

Per Day for a battery:
Oats, barley and corn: 1440 Pounds
Hay: 1680

a modern square bale of hay weighs about 40 pounds.
a modern bag of grain 50 pounds
Per Battery
42 bales of hay
29 bags of feed

At Gettysburg there were approximately 65 union artillery batteries.
65 * 120 horses = 7,800 artillery horses

65 * 1440 Pounds of oats,barley and corn= 93,600 pounds/day
65 * 1680 pounds of hay= 109,200 pounds/day

in modern square bails: 109,200/40=2,730 bales of hay/day
modern bags of feed; 93,600/50= 1,872 bags of feed/day

plus add in water

plus, what goes in eventually comes out - don't know how many pounds come back out of the horse, but for that many horses, that's still a major problem to clean up.

The reality is that there is no way that could be provided. Living off the land was not possible (that many horses would have the ground stripped to dirt within days.)

as far as wounded horses, artillery drivers were issued pistols and a large knife. If a horse was wounded during a battle, it would be shot, and the harness cut away so they could keep going. the last thing they needed was a wounded horse thrashing around in the harness, possibly injuring the drivers or other horses. during battle, they had to keep moving. Not nice things to think about, but it was the reality of the war.

 

[Booner]

My GG Grandfather joined the 7th Ill Vol. Cav in the fall of '61 And it is noted on the monthly report that he provided and was compensated for his own horse and equipment. He was captured in '64 but I don't see any evidence where he was paid for the loss of the horse

 

[nextcity]

I can highly recommend both Kent Masterson Brown's documentary "Unsung Hero: The Horse in the Civil War" and Ronald Maxwell's documentary "Horses of Gettysburg." Both are available to stream on Amazon Instant Video (for free, if you are a Prime Member), or for sale on DVD:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DOZNJCY/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

http://www.amazon.com/Horses-Gettysburg-Civil-War-Minutes®/dp/1592180337/ref=pd_sim_74_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1GYYN9GP61BEABDDG5MK&dpSrc=sims&dpST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_

 

[ole]

I'm kinda torn. I both love and hate horses. I hate them, but I don't like to see them abused. And they were abused during the late unpleasantness. When a horse puts in a full day of work and doesn't get care after that full day, it will sicken and die.

That's just the way it is. And a horse is dumb enough to work itself to death. A noble and fragile beast.

It's probably not fair to the horse to compare it to a pig. But the pig is a whole bunch smarter.

I have seen that the cavalryman didn't get dinner until his horse was set up. I don't imagine that always happened, but it ought to have. Overwork and underfeeed a horse and it will die.

And then there are mules.

 

[EJ Zander]

although artillery would take good care of their horses, it was not always possible during the war.
just a few observations on horses from an artillery standpoint:

Chickamauga was a battle with a large loss of horses. Due to the terrain, the artillery action was at very close quarters (at times exchanging canister between batteries). both sides lost a large number of horses, and many guns changed hand multiple times as the lines moved since they did not have enough horses to take the artillery with them when they had to retreat.
Capt. Goodspeed of 1st Ohio Battery A wrote "Horses wounded 15, and in consequence of not unharnessing for six days and the hardship they have undergone, I will lose 25 more horses"

Pvt James Walker of Battery A wrote "any amount of horses starved to death at the picket rope for want of food"
these losses were not due to neglect, but the realities of combat on the battlefield - the need for continuous
movement and the logistical problems of providing feed.

As far as feeding horses, I did some calculations and the logistics would be even difficult today.

From the field artillery manual regarding horses:
"The Daily allowance of oats, barley and corn is 12 pound;that of hay, 14 pounds."
One Battery would have 120 horses (for mounted. For horse artillery, add about 75 more)

Per Day for a battery:
Oats, barley and corn: 1440 Pounds
Hay: 1680

a modern square bale of hay weighs about 40 pounds.
a modern bag of grain 50 pounds
Per Battery
42 bales of hay
29 bags of feed

At Gettysburg there were approximately 65 union artillery batteries.
65 * 120 horses = 7,800 artillery horses

65 * 1440 Pounds of oats,barley and corn= 93,600 pounds/day
65 * 1680 pounds of hay= 109,200 pounds/day

in modern square bails: 109,200/40=2,730 bales of hay/day
modern bags of feed; 93,600/50= 1,872 bags of feed/day

plus add in water

plus, what goes in eventually comes out - don't know how many pounds come back out of the horse, but for that many horses, that's still a major problem to clean up.

The reality is that there is no way that could be provided. Living off the land was not possible (that many horses would have the ground stripped to dirt within days.)

as far as wounded horses, artillery drivers were issued pistols and a large knife. If a horse was wounded during a battle, it would be shot, and the harness cut away so they could keep going. the last thing they needed was a wounded horse thrashing around in the harness, possibly injuring the drivers or other horses. during battle, they had to keep moving. Not nice things to think about, but it was the reality of the war.

Throwing 12 lbs of corn in the tank everyday can cause some digestive problems. Numbers are spot on, the bales I make are 40lbs. I did similar calculations for a GA artillery unit, fun stuff.

 

[zburkett]

Drezac, great post. I have four horses but still hadn't really considered the size of the problem. Then you have to add the tens of thousands of draft horses and mules. With that many animals there would be no graze.

 

[Patrick H]

I think this is an extremely interesting topic and the responses have been very informative. Thanks to all who are contributing! I try to learn something every day and this was my first lesson of the morning.