Henry Wirz

[debwallsmith]

Does anyone know if Wirz visited Camp Lawton/Millen? I just came across the name of a Millen POW who, according to one database, was killed by Wirz. I know for a fact he died at Millen and his body was reinterred at Beaufort. I suspect that this is an error and would like to send a correction to the managers of the database but want to be doubly certain before I do so. Thanks.

 

[General Casey]

When did this person die? It's possible that they were imprisoned at Andersonville and then transfered to Camp Lawton and died there. It could be this person's health was so deteriorated from their time at Andersonville. I'm sure there were plenty of ex Andersonville prisoners who died shortly after the war from the effects of their imprisonment.

You could also post this individuals name and see what others might find? You could also see about getting their file from the National Archives and see if it contains anything of note.

Maybe @Gary Morgan can weigh in on this?

 

[Gary Morgan]

Hi, Debbie!

Personally, I don't know of Wirz ever visiting Millen, but it's certainly possible. Millen was only in operation for two months - October and November, 1864, so @General Casey is right, knowing when the man was reportedly killed would help to determine the story's validity.

I'm also inclined to think that it's probably an error on the part of whoever compiled the database. Wirz had been shot in the arm/shoulder at the Battle of Seven Pines and had limited use of his right arm, which makes me think that the accounts of him beating prisoners to death are exaggerated. An awful lot of lies were told at his trial. Ex-park Ranger Jennifer thinks he pistol whipped a prisoner to death at one point, based on trial testimony, but I am not so sure.

Who's the man who died? And on what date? Knowing that will help. I know that Wirz was at Andersonville in October because multiple prisoners mentioned encountering him as they were leaving. I'm not so sure about the November guys. (Millen was only in operation in October and November, 1864.)

(For those who don't know, @debwallsmith is probably the leading expert on the POW camp at Millen and helped to excavate the site of the prison several years ago. She is also in the process of compiling a database of all known prisoners who were held there, so if you know of any, you can let her know in this thread!)

Cheers!

Gary

 

[General Casey]

Hi, Debbie!

Personally, I don't know of Wirz ever visiting Millen, but it's certainly possible. Millen was only in operation for two months - October and November, 1864, so @General Casey is right, knowing when the man was reportedly killed would help to determine the story's validity.

I'm also inclined to think that it's probably an error on the part of whoever compiled the database. Wirz had been shot in the arm/shoulder at the Battle of Seven Pines and had limited use of his right arm, which makes me think that the accounts of him beating prisoners to death are exaggerated. An awful lot of lies were told at his trial. Ex-park Ranger Jennifer thinks he pistol whipped a prisoner to death at one point, based on trial testimony, but I am not so sure.

Who's the man who died? And on what date? Knowing that will help. I know that Wirz was at Andersonville in October because multiple prisoners mentioned encountering him as they were leaving. I'm not so sure about the November guys. (Millen was only in operation in October and November, 1864.)

(For those who don't know, @debwallsmith is probably the leading expert on the POW camp at Millen and helped to excavate the site of the prison several years ago. She is also in the process of compiling a database of all known prisoners who were held there, so if you know of any, you can let her know in this thread!)

Cheers!

Gary

I knew you'd have something to say to this topic @Gary Morgan

 

[Gary Morgan]

I knew you'd have something to say to this topic @Gary Morgan

Honestly, I try to avoid talking about Wirz because I can't get a handle on the guy. He's not the boogey man, but he's no saint, either. One of the rangers at Andersonville once told me that she thinks he was schizophrenic, because he seemed to swing from one extreme to the other, and I can't say for sure that she's wrong. I DO know that his hanging was a foregone conclusion, even before the trial. Mentally ill witnesses were allowed to testify for the prosecution (Boston Corbett), while witnesses for the defense were sometimes arrested and charged with crimes when they showed up to testify, witnesses for the defense were not allowed to testify because their English wasn't good enough (so they claimed, but it was good enough for them to travel to the trial, wasn't it?), and by the end of the trial, all of Wirz's lawyers had quit, and STILL they didn't declare a mistrial.

He did order prisoners to be whipped and bucked and gagged as punishments. He also pulled young boys out of the stockade and gave them special assignments because he didn't think they'd last inside the stockade ("Little Red Cap" - Ransom Powell is the best known example of this), he provided guards to go in and help arrest the raiders and permitted the trial to take place, and there are multiple letters written where he tries to get more/better food at the prison (the guards were issued the same food as the prisoners although the guards could use their own money to buy food from the locals), and he allowed about a half dozen Catholic priests into the stockade daily including Father Peter Whelan, but when he asked during his trial to see Father Whelan - who testified for the defense - Father Whelan was told that he couldn't speak to Wirz before testifying, and after he testified, he was told that a visit would be arranged and so he hung around in Washington for 3 weeks before realizing that they had no intention of letting him pay a pastoral visit to Wirz.

I tend to get really ticked off when I read the Wirz trial transcript....

 

[danny]

Honestly, I try to avoid talking about Wirz because I can't get a handle on the guy. He's not the boogey man, but he's no saint, either. One of the rangers at Andersonville once told me that she thinks he was schizophrenic, because he seemed to swing from one extreme to the other, and I can't say for sure that she's wrong. I DO know that his hanging was a foregone conclusion, even before the trial. Mentally ill witnesses were allowed to testify for the prosecution (Boston Corbett), while witnesses for the defense were sometimes arrested and charged with crimes when they showed up to testify, witnesses for the defense were not allowed to testify because their English wasn't good enough (so they claimed, but it was good enough for them to travel to the trial, wasn't it?), and by the end of the trial, all of Wirz's lawyers had quit, and STILL they didn't declare a mistrial.

He did order prisoners to be whipped and bucked and gagged as punishments. He also pulled young boys out of the stockade and gave them special assignments because he didn't think they'd last inside the stockade ("Little Red Cap" - Ransom Powell is the best known example of this), he provided guards to go in and help arrest the raiders and permitted the trial to take place, and there are multiple letters written where he tries to get more/better food at the prison (the guards were issued the same food as the prisoners although the guards could use their own money to buy food from the locals), and he allowed about a half dozen Catholic priests into the stockade daily including Father Peter Whelan, but when he asked during his trial to see Father Whelan - who testified for the defense - Father Whelan was told that he couldn't speak to Wirz before testifying, and after he testified, he was told that a visit would be arranged and so he hung around in Washington for 3 weeks before realizing that they had no intention of letting him pay a pastoral visit to Wirz.

I tend to get really ticked off when I read the Wirz trial transcript....

You are so right. It was little more than a kangaroo court and a lynching.

 

[Fairfield]

You are so right. It was little more than a kangaroo court and a lynching.

But, how can this be so? The trial went on for 2.5 months and involved c. 150 witnesses (Confederate officers & guards and civilians). By definition, a kangaroo court is hasty and irregular; also by definition, a lynching is outside the legal system.

 

[danny]

But, how can this be so? The trial went on for 2.5 months and involved c. 150 witnesses (Confederate officers & guards and civilians). By definition, a kangaroo court is hasty and irregular; also by definition, a lynching is outside the legal system.

These witnesses included paid individuals who had never been to Andersonville.

The trial, regardless of length, was a farce. Kangaroo court is "irregular" indeed, and the so called "legal system" was anything but.

In my opinion.

 

[Gary Morgan]

I, how can this be so? The trial went on for 2.5 months and involved c. 150 witnesses (Confederate officers & guards and civilians). By definition, a kangaroo court is hasty and irregular; also by definition, a lynching is outside the legal system.

A case could be made for that argument. It was unprecedented. It was the first War Crimes trial. The Constitution guarantees an trial by a jury of one's peers - the court officials were not Wirz's peers in any sense. He was court martialed in spite of the fact that he was never in the Union Army. The defense's objections were nearly always overruled; the prosecution's objections almost never were. witnesses testified that they had seen Wirz commit objectionable acts in August, but he wasn't at Andersonville in August - he was seeking medical treatment for his arm. He wrote multiple letters requesting food, medicine and shelters for inside the stockade, but witnesses who could have testified to that fact were arrested for "war crimes" themselves when they showed up to testify, and the released after the trial was concluded. The trial was a farce for all of the reasons mentioned above. By the end, the poor guy didn't even have a lawyer to represent him in court - a right we now take for granted. A mistrial should have been declared several times over. It was decidedly "irregular." After the hanging, his head was removed and his body dismembered before burial - two of his vertebrae are still located at the National Museum of Health and Medicine in Silver Spring Maryland, so only part of his body was returned to his widow after his execution. There is no legal provision that allows for THAT.

As I said, I can't get a handle on the guy because there's so much conflicting information, but he sure as hell didn't get a fair trial!

 

[Fairfield]

These witnesses included paid individuals who had never been to Andersonville.

The trial, regardless of length, was a farce. Kangaroo court is "irregular" indeed, and the so called "legal system" was anything but.

In my opinion.

Because I don't have a law degree--or any kind of legal training--I wouldn't presume to weigh in on fine legal points. Only to note that (according to NPS, Capt. Wirz was only one of some 1000 who were prosecuted for violation of the rules of war. I'm sorry, but this doesn't seem like a strange and unique occurrence.

I don't know that court martials require legally sanctioned representation for the defendant--as I said, I have no law degree. But I know that my father, as a military officer, was roped into defense (and Dear Old Dad was no more a lawyer than I). It is my admittedly unqualified belief that a court martial today doesn't require a legal defense attorney but that is today and may not have been true then.

Proceedings against those subject to military law (and Capt. Wirz was tried before the edict concerning military tribunals had been issued) differ from civil proceedings. I'm not offering an opinion because I certainly am not qualified to do so. However I am questioning the use of "kangaroo court" to a proceeding that dragged on for so long and entailed so many witnesses. And I wonder about "lynching" being used to described the result of a long and involved trial.

 

[danny]

Because I don't have a law degree--or any kind of legal training--I wouldn't presume to weigh in on fine legal points. Only to note that (according to NPS, Capt. Wirz was only one of some 1000 who were prosecuted for violation of the rules of war. I'm sorry, but this doesn't seem like a strange and unique occurrence.

I don't know that court martials require legally sanctioned representation for the defendant--as I said, I have no law degree. But I know that my father, as a military officer, was roped into defense (and Dear Old Dad was no more a lawyer than I). It is my admittedly unqualified belief that a court martial today doesn't require a legal defense attorney but that is today and may not have been true then.

Proceedings against those subject to military law (and Capt. Wirz was tried before the edict concerning military tribunals had been issued) differ from civil proceedings. I'm not offering an opinion because I certainly am not qualified to do so. However I am questioning the use of "kangaroo court" to a proceeding that dragged on for so long and entailed so many witnesses. And I wonder about "lynching" being used to described the result of a long and involved trial.

Point taken, and the descriptive terms of Kangaroo Court and lynching were merely hyperbole. Something I am too often guilty of.

I respect and appreciate your rebuttal

 

[debwallsmith]

Hi, Debbie!

Personally, I don't know of Wirz ever visiting Millen, but it's certainly possible. Millen was only in operation for two months - October and November, 1864, so @General Casey is right, knowing when the man was reportedly killed would help to determine the story's validity.

I'm also inclined to think that it's probably an error on the part of whoever compiled the database. Wirz had been shot in the arm/shoulder at the Battle of Seven Pines and had limited use of his right arm, which makes me think that the accounts of him beating prisoners to death are exaggerated. An awful lot of lies were told at his trial. Ex-park Ranger Jennifer thinks he pistol whipped a prisoner to death at one point, based on trial testimony, but I am not so sure.

Who's the man who died? And on what date? Knowing that will help. I know that Wirz was at Andersonville in October because multiple prisoners mentioned encountering him as they were leaving. I'm not so sure about the November guys. (Millen was only in operation in October and November, 1864.)

(For those who don't know, @debwallsmith is probably the leading expert on the POW camp at Millen and helped to excavate the site of the prison several years ago. She is also in the process of compiling a database of all known prisoners who were held there, so if you know of any, you can let her know in this thread!)

Cheers!

Gar

Hi, Debbie!

Personally, I don't know of Wirz ever visiting Millen, but it's certainly possible. Millen was only in operation for two months - October and November, 1864, so @General Casey is right, knowing when the man was reportedly killed would help to determine the story's validity.

I'm also inclined to think that it's probably an error on the part of whoever compiled the database. Wirz had been shot in the arm/shoulder at the Battle of Seven Pines and had limited use of his right arm, which makes me think that the accounts of him beating prisoners to death are exaggerated. An awful lot of lies were told at his trial. Ex-park Ranger Jennifer thinks he pistol whipped a prisoner to death at one point, based on trial testimony, but I am not so sure.

Who's the man who died? And on what date? Knowing that will help. I know that Wirz was at Andersonville in October because multiple prisoners mentioned encountering him as they were leaving. I'm not so sure about the November guys. (Millen was only in operation in October and November, 1864.)

(For those who don't know, @debwallsmith is probably the leading expert on the POW camp at Millen and helped to excavate the site of the prison several years ago. She is also in the process of compiling a database of all known prisoners who were held there, so if you know of any, you can let her know in this thread!)

Cheers!

Gary

Hi, Gary. Thanks for the plug. I hope all is well with you. I have some new documentation on Millen indicating that the first POWs arriving there from Andersonville were sent on the 16th and 17th of September. According to Sneden, Millen was abandoned on the 22nd of November so it was in operation for almost 10 weeks - several weeks more than previously believed.

I wonder if the prisoner who made the claim meant Winder instead of Wirz? As a side note, the pension records only state that he died, not that he was shot. Maybe I should contact the managers of the database although previous attempts at correcting information have been unsuccessful.

 

[debwallsmith]

When did this person die? It's possible that they were imprisoned at Andersonville and then transfered to Camp Lawton and died there. It could be this person's health was so deteriorated from their time at Andersonville. I'm sure there were plenty of ex Andersonville prisoners who died shortly after the war from the effects of their imprisonment.

You could also post this individuals name and see what others might find? You could also see about getting their file from the National Archives and see if it contains anything of note.

Maybe @Gary Morgan can weigh in on this?

Manassa Stewart Company E 9 Minnesota Infantry was sent from Andersonville to Millen, where he died on October 14, October 26 or November 1, depending on the document. According the monthly recapitulations, a total of 5345 POWs were recorded in the Andersonville records as having been sent to Millen between September 16 and November 17 before Millen was abandoned on November 22.

 

[Gary Morgan]

According to Sneden, Millen was abandoned on the 22nd of November so it was in operation for almost 10 weeks - several weeks more than previously believed.

I wonder if the prisoner who made the claim meant Winder instead of Wirz? As a side note, the pension records only state that he died, not that he was shot. Maybe I should contact the managers of the database although previous attempts at correcting information have been unsuccessful.

There's one database of POWs and Sultana victims where the compiler has been deceased for several years, but his widow apparently keeps the website up as a tribute to him, but can't answer questions about where he got his info and she doesn't know how to make changes on it. If this sounds like the one you're looking at, you are not likely to get a usable response to your queries.

As a side note, Sneden was not terribly useful on the raiders - he drew the gallows propped up on what looks like two whisky barrels, while every other sketch has it propped up on planks, so I approach him as a source reluctantly.

Just to muddy the waters a bit, the database I have on my computer says it wasn't "Manasa Stewart" who was killed by Wirz - he's listed as dying 10/14/64 with no place of death given, but no grave for him found at Andersonville. I show "William Stewart" as "Shot by guard, not found, alleged to have been shot and killed by Henry Wirz." No burial place or date of death given. The online database that I mentioned a few minutes ago says "Reported to have died at Andersonville, date unknown, alleged to have been shot by Henry Wirz," and then it repeats the comment about being shot by a guard. For "Manasa Stewart" it says, " Died in prison at Camp Lawton, Millen, Georgia, October 14, 1864; reinterred at National Cemetery, Beaufort, South Carolina, Plot 41, Grave 4792, in 1868."

Make of it what you will, but I'm inclined to think it's another case of Wirz being accused of something when he was never actually there, which happened quite a lot at his trial.

Have you looked at Fold3 yet?

 

[debwallsmith]

There's one database of POWs and Sultana victims where the compiler has been deceased for several years, but his widow apparently keeps the website up as a tribute to him, but can't answer questions about where he got his info and she doesn't know how to make changes on it. If this sounds like the one you're looking at, you are not likely to get a usable response to your queries.

As a side note, Sneden was not terribly useful on the raiders - he drew the gallows propped up on what looks like two whisky barrels, while every other sketch has it propped up on planks, so I approach him as a source reluctantly.

Just to muddy the waters a bit, the database I have on my computer says it wasn't "Manasa Stewart" who was killed by Wirz - he's listed as dying 10/14/64 with no place of death given, but no grave for him found at Andersonville. I show "William Stewart" as "Shot by guard, not found, alleged to have been shot and killed by Henry Wirz." No burial place or date of death given. The online database that I mentioned a few minutes ago says "Reported to have died at Andersonville, date unknown, alleged to have been shot by Henry Wirz," and then it repeats the comment about being shot by a guard. For "Manasa Stewart" it says, " Died in prison at Camp Lawton, Millen, Georgia, October 14, 1864; reinterred at National Cemetery, Beaufort, South Carolina, Plot 41, Grave 4792, in 1868."

Make of it what you will, but I'm inclined to think it's another case of Wirz being accused of something when he was never actually there, which happened quite a lot at his trial.

Have you looked at Fold3 yet?

I've consulted all the "usual suspects" and have found differing info regarding his death date and where he died but the most reliable evidence indicates that he died at Millen and is now resting in Beaufort SC.