Henry Baylus Forrest update.

OleRed76

Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
22
So, in my previous post I was in search of a document or documents that could help me link my grandfather Henry Balus Forrest to Shaddrach Forrest Sr. and it gets kind of interesting. Here we go, My 2nd great grandfather is "William Thomas Forrest" on his 50th anniversary it was printed in the Lawndale paper that he was the 2nd cousin to General Nathan Bedford forrest "article attached". His father was "Henry Balus Forrest" which is my 3rd great grandpa. My 2nd great grandpa William named his son Arthur Balus Forrest, obviously using the Balus name from his father Henry Balus Forrest. In trying to plug my grandfather Henry Balus Forrest to Shadrach Forrest Sr. and still have my 2nd grandfathers statement be true that he is the 2nd cousin of General Nathan Bedford Forrest I have came up with this. I cannot find the middle name of John Forrest, brother to Nathan Forrest Sr. anywhere. However, this gets very interesting, I did find that "John Forrest (second son) served in the Mexican War and was shot and paralyzed. He was a gambler who worked as jailer and clerk for brother Bedford. He resided in Memphis, Tenn. at Worsham House in 1862". Again there is no mention of his middle name anywhere however he spent the rest of his life as a "Jailer and clerk for his brother Bedford". I think that it is very likely that his middle name was "Henry" and he named his son, my 3rd great grandpa "Henry Balus Forrest", because if you look up the definition of the name Balus it is "Bayliss Name Meaning. English: occupational name for an officer of a court of justice, whose duties included serving writs, distraining goods, and (formerly) arresting people. In England formerly it was also a status name for the chief officer of a hundred (administrative subdivision of a county).
So I am led to believe that my 3rd grandfather Henry Balus Forrest is the son of John Forrest who is the son of Shadrach Forrest Sr. because John gave his son a middle name that literally meant what his occupation was. John was a jailer and clerk who named his son the middle name Balus which literally means if spelled correctly "occupational name for an officer of a court of justice". Which would make my 2nd grandfathers statement of being the 2nd cousin of General Nathan Bedford Forrest completely true and would make John Forrest middle name more than likely Henry of orange county, North Carolina.
This is a document that Shadrach, Nathan Forrest Sr., Silas Forrest, and who I believe is my grandpa "John" Henry Forrest show up on together.
23 Dec 1800 from Shadrack Forrest, Orange County to John Phipps of Wake County.jpg


This is the article from 1946 where my 2nd grandfather is said to be the 2nd cousin of General Nathan Bedford Forrest
William Thomas Forrest.jpg


I think I'm getting pretty darn close on this if I have not already arrived. Tell me your thoughts
 

Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!

diane

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
20,451
Location
State of Jefferson
You're on the right track! Henry Forrest was one of Shadrack's sons - Gen Forrest's great-uncle. There was a tumultous to-do over land from Jane Ledbetter Forrest's kin that lasted for generations - literally - which eventually led to the death of John or Jonathan Forrest. He was the general's uncle and was killed in a big dust-up in Hernando over children belonging to Robert Forrest and his wife Sarah Matlock.

John Nathaniel Forrest was Gen Forrest's brother and, as you say, crippled in the Mexican War. He died only a couple, three years after the war ended but had no children due to his war injury.

Have you looked over Larry Cockerham's The Brothers Forrest? He has a lot of excellent family tree work - might help you out considerably. I do know that in west Tennessee and north Mississippi you can't swing a cat without hitting some kin or other of Gen Forrest's! (Sorting out the Forrests is like sorting out the Lees...) Larry was also looking into Shadrack's land dealings - such as the document you show - which are very complicated and numerous. He tended to sell land to relations first, somebody else second, so sometimes it is a good place to pick up a thread.
 

OleRed76

Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
22
Thanks Diane,
would you happen to know John Forrest middle name? The John that is the brother to Nathan Forrest Senior? I was speculating that it may be Henry because it would make the complete story going back to 1946 make sense. Thanks
 

diane

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
20,451
Location
State of Jefferson
You are probably right although it's possible there is no middle name. I'm not very sure of the brothers of either William, Forrest's father, or of Nathan, his grandfather. Just his brother John was John Nathaniel Forrest. It's always a little difficult when so many have the same names! Forrest had a set of twin brothers, Isaac and Bedford. Bedford shows up in a number of other family members as well and the dates are also confused - that's the fun of family tree research! Forrest, for instance, called himself Bedford despite another brother being named that, but within the family he was called Nathan...but if one not family called him that, he'd look around for his grandfather! The twin brothers died very young, however, from typhoid, as did Forrest's sisters. Hard times then, that's for sure.
 

Lubliner

First Sergeant
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
1,244
Location
Chattanooga, Tennessee
@OleRed76, I may have mentioned it in another thread, but I have at least one Official Records Volume (Part 1 Series 1 Vol. LII) that was published in 1898. Rubber stamped on the immediate right-hand page upon opening, in the top right corner, reads in burgundy ink
N. B. FORREST CAMP, U. C. V. Chattanooga Tenn.
On the next page, at the bottom (Title Page) in flat black stamped ink, Discarded in upper case over the smaller printed words-
Chattanooga-Hamilton Co. Bicentennial Library.
The pages are in very good condition, but the front binding has come loose rendering the flap free to flop. (Black Cover). I cannot determine when the book belonged to the camp itself. I picked it up at a used bookstore for 15 dollars because of the stamp, primarily. Just thought it would be an interesting side-note. Excuse me please,
Lubliner.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
13,342
Location
Mississippi
So, in my previous post I was in search of a document or documents that could help me link my grandfather Henry Balus Forrest to Shaddrach Forrest Sr. and it gets kind of interesting. Here we go, My 2nd great grandfather is "William Thomas Forrest" on his 50th anniversary it was printed in the Lawndale paper that he was the 2nd cousin to General Nathan Bedford forrest "article attached". His father was "Henry Balus Forrest" which is my 3rd great grandpa. My 2nd great grandpa William named his son Arthur Balus Forrest, obviously using the Balus name from his father Henry Balus Forrest. In trying to plug my grandfather Henry Balus Forrest to Shadrach Forrest Sr. and still have my 2nd grandfathers statement be true that he is the 2nd cousin of General Nathan Bedford Forrest I have came up with this. I cannot find the middle name of John Forrest, brother to Nathan Forrest Sr. anywhere. However, this gets very interesting, I did find that "John Forrest (second son) served in the Mexican War and was shot and paralyzed. He was a gambler who worked as jailer and clerk for brother Bedford. He resided in Memphis, Tenn. at Worsham House in 1862". Again there is no mention of his middle name anywhere however he spent the rest of his life as a "Jailer and clerk for his brother Bedford". I think that it is very likely that his middle name was "Henry" and he named his son, my 3rd great grandpa "Henry Balus Forrest", because if you look up the definition of the name Balus it is "Bayliss Name Meaning. English: occupational name for an officer of a court of justice, whose duties included serving writs, distraining goods, and (formerly) arresting people. In England formerly it was also a status name for the chief officer of a hundred (administrative subdivision of a county).
So I am led to believe that my 3rd grandfather Henry Balus Forrest is the son of John Forrest who is the son of Shadrach Forrest Sr. because John gave his son a middle name that literally meant what his occupation was. John was a jailer and clerk who named his son the middle name Balus which literally means if spelled correctly "occupational name for an officer of a court of justice". Which would make my 2nd grandfathers statement of being the 2nd cousin of General Nathan Bedford Forrest completely true and would make John Forrest middle name more than likely Henry of orange county, North Carolina.
This is a document that Shadrach, Nathan Forrest Sr., Silas Forrest, and who I believe is my grandpa "John" Henry Forrest show up on together.
View attachment 317272

This is the article from 1946 where my 2nd grandfather is said to be the 2nd cousin of General Nathan Bedford Forrest
View attachment 317273

I think I'm getting pretty darn close on this if I have not already arrived. Tell me your thoughts
I've asked our moderators to also move this thread from 'general history' into the Forrest forum.

I think you'll get more feedback if you post in the Forrest forum rather than the general history forum.

Only some advice for a new member.

:smile:
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
850
There are several NBF family trees online and they don't all agree. The one that makes the most sense for what you already know about your line would be that General Forrest and William Thomas Forrest shared a g-grandfather.


g-grandfather Shadrack Forrest Sr
grandfathers Shadrack Forrest Jr Nathan Forrest
fathers Henry Balus Forrest William Forrest
William Thomas Forrest Nathan Bedford Forrest

Here's a link to a tree that shows this relationship. I can't vouch for its accuracy but there is also DNA lines that show Henry Balus and Shadrack Sr in the same subgroup.

http://bobbittville.com/Forrest-Family.htm

Hope that this helps.
 

OleRed76

Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
22
There are several NBF family trees online and they don't all agree. The one that makes the most sense for what you already know about your line would be that General Forrest and William Thomas Forrest shared a g-grandfather.


g-grandfather Shadrack Forrest Sr
grandfathers Shadrack Forrest Jr Nathan Forrest
fathers Henry Balus Forrest William Forrest
William Thomas Forrest Nathan Bedford Forrest

Here's a link to a tree that shows this relationship. I can't vouch for its accuracy but there is also DNA lines that show Henry Balus and Shadrack Sr in the same subgroup.




Hope that this helps.
 

OleRed76

Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
22
We have mad another confirmation about my 3rd great grandfather Henry Balus Forrest today. So we gathered as many census records as we could find on grandpa Balus and his children and compared them to one another. The interesting find today is the fact that out of all the census records with grandpa on them, we found that he would sometimes use his first name other times use his middle name. The wife and children on the census stayed the same but in comparing the census we found that on one year he marked his name as Arthur Balus Forrest. His son William Thomas Forrest my 2nd grandpa named his son Arthur Balus Forrest and he went on to name his son Arthur Balus Forrest Jr. So what this concluded by way of census documents is that my 3rd grandpas full name was "Arthur Henry Balus Forrest". With that conclusion all the connections line up now and I will be submitting my application with confidence to the Sons of Confederate Veterans for membership. I'm interested in following up on those DNA lines as well, I have had my DNA tested but don't know if I can use the rawl data to compare to Nathan Bedford Forrest line. Anyone know if that is possible? Thanks
 

diane

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
20,451
Location
State of Jefferson
There are several NBF family trees online and they don't all agree. The one that makes the most sense for what you already know about your line would be that General Forrest and William Thomas Forrest shared a g-grandfather.


g-grandfather Shadrack Forrest Sr
grandfathers Shadrack Forrest Jr Nathan Forrest
fathers Henry Balus Forrest William Forrest
William Thomas Forrest Nathan Bedford Forrest

Here's a link to a tree that shows this relationship. I can't vouch for its accuracy but there is also DNA lines that show Henry Balus and Shadrack Sr in the same subgroup.

http://bobbittville.com/Forrest-Family.htm

Hope that this helps.
I'm about as happy to see that as our new friend probably is! That is one I ran across some years ago but lost - not the most tech savvy person in the world, unfortunately. However what caught my eye is this tree has the connections to some very important events in the life of the general. The Lovins are the group who sued over property owned by Jane Ledbetter, the never-ending issue that each male Forrest seemed to get into (including Bedford who inherited some of the disputed land) until the Civil War settled the matter once and for all. This tree also shows the connection between the Forrest family and the Matlock family, and sheds light on why the incident in Hernando happened. Thanks, @roberts !

OleRed76, sure hope this helps you.
 

diane

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
20,451
Location
State of Jefferson
We have mad another confirmation about my 3rd great grandfather Henry Balus Forrest today. So we gathered as many census records as we could find on grandpa Balus and his children and compared them to one another. The interesting find today is the fact that out of all the census records with grandpa on them, we found that he would sometimes use his first name other times use his middle name. The wife and children on the census stayed the same but in comparing the census we found that on one year he marked his name as Arthur Balus Forrest. His son William Thomas Forrest my 2nd grandpa named his son Arthur Balus Forrest and he went on to name his son Arthur Balus Forrest Jr. So what this concluded by way of census documents is that my 3rd grandpas full name was "Arthur Henry Balus Forrest". With that conclusion all the connections line up now and I will be submitting my application with confidence to the Sons of Confederate Veterans for membership. I'm interested in following up on those DNA lines as well, I have had my DNA tested but don't know if I can use the rawl data to compare to Nathan Bedford Forrest line. Anyone know if that is possible? Thanks
Maybe @MattL can help with the DNA? @Zella ?
 

Zella

2nd Lieutenant
Forum Host
Joined
May 23, 2018
Messages
2,599
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Diane!

Must confess I have not done the DNA thing for genealogy yet so cannot comment on how it works. (Actually most of what I know about it comes from being a true crime buff and how it relates to solving crimes. LOL) But my understanding is that you probably cannot actively compare against one you're looking for and can only see actual connections you have, but that is just a guess on my part. I don't know how easy it is to spot famous ancestors/connections.

I've been meaning to make a post on DNA and genealogy in the Ancestry forum and should probably do so to see if anybody has tips, etc. I can tag you, OleRed, if you're interested.

As for the census, I have spotted some weird inconsistencies in answers in my own research, so I think your conclusions, OleRed, are reasonable. With mine, I know it's not because it's the wrong person. But I've seen birthplaces change and names be slightly altered. Sometimes it is due to censustaker error and sometimes it is because the source of the information differs (say if dad is talking to the census taker versus oldest son versus mom). I know plenty of folks who go by their first name or middle name, depending on the situation, even now, so that all makes a lot of sense to me in relation to what you found.
 

scone

Sergeant Major
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
1,909
Location
Mt. Juliet Tennessee "The City Between The Lakes"
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Diane!

Must confess I have not done the DNA thing for genealogy yet so cannot comment on how it works. (Actually most of what I know about it comes from being a true crime buff and how it relates to solving crimes. LOL) But my understanding is that you probably cannot actively compare against one you're looking for and can only see actual connections you have, but that is just a guess on my part. I don't know how easy it is to spot famous ancestors/connections.

I've been meaning to make a post on DNA and genealogy in the Ancestry forum and should probably do so to see if anybody has tips, etc. I can tag you, OleRed, if you're interested.

As for the census, I have spotted some weird inconsistencies in answers in my own research, so I think your conclusions, OleRed, are reasonable. With mine, I know it's not because it's the wrong person. But I've seen birthplaces change and names be slightly altered. Sometimes it is due to censustaker error and sometimes it is because the source of the information differs (say if dad is talking to the census taker versus oldest son versus mom). I know plenty of folks who go by their first name or middle name, depending on the situation, even now, so that all makes a lot of sense to me in relation to what you found.
Or changed there name in my tree some decided Coan sounded better than Cone . so they went by it
 

OleRed76

Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
22
I'm about as happy to see that as our new friend probably is! That is one I ran across some years ago but lost - not the most tech savvy person in the world, unfortunately. However what caught my eye is this tree has the connections to some very important events in the life of the general. The Lovins are the group who sued over property owned by Jane Ledbetter, the never-ending issue that each male Forrest seemed to get into (including Bedford who inherited some of the disputed land) until the Civil War settled the matter once and for all. This tree also shows the connection between the Forrest family and the Matlock family, and sheds light on why the incident in Hernando happened. Thanks, @roberts !

OleRed76, sure hope this helps you.
I couldn't agree more, at this point all the pieces are coming together perfectly and proving a couple theories as well as stirring some new suspicions as to why my grandpa Delbert went to the WV mountains by himself and "never" spoke of his family or background to anyone, even his own children. The most they ever got was "I'm from Illinois" and my mother met his twin brother Gilbert Sample Forrest when she was in school when my grandpa Delbert and Gilbert came to pick her up riding in the same car. She said as a little girl she was never so confused in her life to come out of the school and see another person standing beside her father that looked exactly like her father. lol she said she just stared at them both the whole ride home. After that the brother disappeared from conversation again and it was back to quiet farming granddaddy who grandma said loved his farming and animals more than his family. lol lol lol Who would've knew that one of his close guarded secrets was that he was a close relative to General Nathan Bedford Forrest. My mother and uncles said he would never ride in to town with the family or leave the perimeters of his farm but was a hard worker. It is still a huge question in our family today as to "what in the hell would possess someone from Macoupin, Illinois to leave all of his family and move deep in to the mountains where making a living was very rough and never speak of his past? I guess that true answer we may never know. He died the same year I was born however, I was told in the months leading up to his death that he would spend a lot of time with me and allowed my father to move on the farm to be closer to my mom and help him out.
 

OleRed76

Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
22
Or changed there name in my tree some decided Coan sounded better than Cone . so they went by it
Thanks Scone, my whole family is really excited at he moment. Over the past months we've tried harder to disprove it than to prove it and all answers and leads fall right back to making 2nd grandpa William Thomas Forrest statement in the 1946 article true however, he was a little off on the relationship, he said 2nd cousins but documents put him closer than that. I feel I have a strong case and can prove it by solid documents now but will never stop digging for more facts. This has honestly been one of the greatest adventures and most surprising that I have ever been on. We never knew why my grandpa was so secretive at least now we may know the answer to maybe one of his secrets. Thanks
 

diane

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
20,451
Location
State of Jefferson
OleRed76, I can certainly relate to family members being secretive about their lives. My grandfather was born in 1849 and he and his brothers rode with Forrest. They were Choctaw/Cherokee/Catawba. Granddad never said a word about it! Or anything else. Born in Kentucky, he came on out here to California where they paid bounty hunters to kill Indians so...he was a white man! It was a very, very long time before we found out he was really a full blood and even longer before the connection to Forrest was discovered - quite by accident. He was a successful rancher but sure kept his mouth shut about everything in that past. When he died, my father had his watch, a Maynard rifle, a Colt Navy pistol and a box of pictures of people with no names! It would sure have been nice if he'd said something about anything but, as Dr McCoy from Star Trek might say, he was as tight-lipped as an Aldeberon shell-mouth!
 

OleRed76

Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2019
Messages
22
OleRed76, I can certainly relate to family members being secretive about their lives. My grandfather was born in 1849 and he and his brothers rode with Forrest. They were Choctaw/Cherokee/Catawba. Granddad never said a word about it! Or anything else. Born in Kentucky, he came on out here to California where they paid bounty hunters to kill Indians so...he was a white man! It was a very, very long time before we found out he was really a full blood and even longer before the connection to Forrest was discovered - quite by accident. He was a successful rancher but sure kept his mouth shut about everything in that past. When he died, my father had his watch, a Maynard rifle, a Colt Navy pistol and a box of pictures of people with no names! It would sure have been nice if he'd said something about anything but, as Dr McCoy from Star Trek might say, he was as tight-lipped as an Aldeberon shell-mouth!
That is a wild ride you have been on to make your discoveries. I doubt my grandpa Delbert would've thought he would get a warm welcome from the community in Jane Lew, WV if they knew he was the kin of General Forrest and living in the heart of West Virginia which was a large part Union. Just speculation but maybe he thought he was safer being discrete about his identity. I could only wish to have the opportunity to have one discussion with him or grandpa Henry Balus Forrest. How lucky you are to have the family artifacts, never let them go.
 

scone

Sergeant Major
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
1,909
Location
Mt. Juliet Tennessee "The City Between The Lakes"
Thanks Scone, my whole family is really excited at he moment. Over the past months we've tried harder to disprove it than to prove it and all answers and leads fall right back to making 2nd grandpa William Thomas Forrest statement in the 1946 article true however, he was a little off on the relationship, he said 2nd cousins but documents put him closer than that. I feel I have a strong case and can prove it by solid documents now but will never stop digging for more facts. This has honestly been one of the greatest adventures and most surprising that I have ever been on. We never knew why my grandpa was so secretive at least now we may know the answer to maybe one of his secrets. Thanks
We have more access to today via online than they did by searching through papers etc back in the day .. All the best in your searching …
 


Fewer ads. Lots of American Civil War content!
JOIN NOW: REGISTER HERE!
Top