Help with identification

[Billw12280]

$3,500

The Horse Soldier coat is not that bad and I would have them deliver it to Debbie Sheads (S&S Sutler) up the road and she could repair the holes very easily, identified is always preferable, though this soldier did not serve long, there are the letters and box to be considered as well. The 115th was a 6 months regiment and suffered only one battle casualty, thus the low price.

I like the grouping and the fact that it is id'd but the moth holes were a concern for me. I have never seen Debbie Sheads work, how noticeable would the repairs be? The fact that it has the letter grouping really intrigues me. I love to read how life was for the soldiers from first hand accounts. I don't have any period paper items because, quite frankly, I've been scared to venture into that field. I have heard there is a lot of care to preserve and maintain paper. The box, belt, and plate look to be in excellent condition though.

 

[Billw12280]

I look at collecting almost like trading baseball cards as a kid, I find what I am looking for and then trade up as I discover other more desirable provenance and conditioned pieces. Research, research and research some more and be patient, many pieces are starting to hit the market, so there should not be a rush to purchase.

Dave Taylor just had an enlisted frock, sergeants stripes, sash and belt with buckle for $5,500. I'm sure it sold before the finger left the keyboard, but that is what we are now looking at for these pieces. An enlisted frock during the peak was easily $7,500-$10,000 alone, the stripes would have gone for $800, the sash another $800 and the belt $550. Keep in mind that the set was pieced together unidentified, but in pristine shape.

I did see that grouping from Dave Taylor and it appears it may still be available. It was more than I was looking to spend right now, but it would display nicely. I wonder if the collector's market will ever rebound. I enjoy it regardless!

 

[1867crete]

@Billw12280 thanks for posting and starting this thread I enjoy it much and have learned a lot and thanks to all who have added to it!
@Pakage4 thanks for you insight!

 

[Billw12280]

Contact the Armory, which has records of past members:

5th Regiment Armory
29th Division Street
Baltimore, MD 21201
(410) 576-6000

After calling the armory today I remember what happened. They referred me to the Adjutant Generals office but when I called them they were closed. I got further today, the AG's office referred me to the National Guard museum. I called there but they close between 2-2:30 so I left a voicemail. Hopefully I will hear back from them soon. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Billw12280]

@Billw12280 thanks for posting and starting this thread I enjoy it much and have learned a lot and thanks to all who have added to it!
@Pakage4 thanks for you insight!

No problem @1867crete. I love sharing and learning from everybody here. I am truly happy to be a part of this group. As always thanks to @Package4 for your willingness to share your knowledge with the less knowledgeable (referring to myself of course, lots of knowledgeable people here).

 

[Michael W.]

It comes down to what you really want, and what you can afford. I agree with @Package4, identified pieces are preferable. I would rather have a uniform that is identified that has condition issues, than an unidentified pristine example. But that is just me. As he also stated, there is no need to be in a hurry. Better to save up $$ for a more desired piece, than simply taking what is currently available. But then again, you can always "trade up" later.

Civil War cloth really tanked after the recession of 2008. All items came down somewhat, even marginally, but cloth took a big hit. It is starting to come back up now, slowly. But there are still great deals to be had. Back in 2014, Cowan's Auctions in Cincinnati auctioned off one man's entire collection of Civil War uniforms, over 20 of them. 20 uniforms being dumped on the market at one time, with a limited number of collectors that collect cloth, I knew that it was a fantastic and rare opportunity to acquire a quality piece cheap. The uniform collectors came and everyone had a field day. I personally acquired a very rare Model 1864 pattern Union Naval officer's double-breasted frock, which was estimated between 4,000 to 6,000 dollars, for only $2,000. The real winner of the day was a guy who won a actual Major-General's double breasted frock that had come out of a GAR hall in Philadelphia, unfortunately unidentified, but the real deal, for only $8,000 when it was estimated between 15,000 to 25,000. That probably won't happen again, but be patient, and always be watching, you never know when an awesome deal is going to show up.

 

[Billw12280]

It comes down to what you really want, and what you can afford. I agree with @Package4, identified pieces are preferable. I would rather have a uniform that is identified that has condition issues, than an unidentified pristine example. But that is just me. As he also stated, there is no need to be in a hurry. Better to save up $$ for a more desired piece, than simply taking what is currently available. But then again, you can always "trade up" later.

Civil War cloth really tanked after the recession of 2008. All items came down somewhat, even marginally, but cloth took a big hit. It is starting to come back up now, slowly. But there are still great deals to be had. Back in 2014, Cowan's Auctions in Cincinnati auctioned off one man's entire collection of Civil War uniforms, over 20 of them. 20 uniforms being dumped on the market at one time, with a limited number of collectors that collect cloth, I knew that it was a fantastic and rare opportunity to acquire a quality piece cheap. The uniform collectors came and everyone had a field day. I personally acquired a very rare Model 1864 pattern Union Naval officer's double-breasted frock, which was estimated between 4,000 to 6,000 dollars, for only $2,000. The real winner of the day was a guy who won a actual Major-General's double breasted frock that had come out of a GAR hall in Philadelphia, unfortunately unidentified, but the real deal, for only $8,000 when it was estimated between 15,000 to 25,000. That probably won't happen again, but be patient, and always be watching, you never know when an awesome deal is going to show up.

Good advice, I would also prefer an identified piece. I am double checking with the sellers to see if there is any information on the coats. The frock coat has been an elusive item for me so I have been leaning towards purchasing it. I didn't know I was going to be so interested in a greatcoat until the seller sent me the offer on his. I'll most likely end up with one, or both, and possibly "trade up" later.

I wish I was collecting when Cowans sold all of those coats. I hear I missed out on a lot of really nice coats sold at really low prices.

I did find a seller with Major General John McIntosh frock coat that I would love to have but he wants $14,000 for it. I'd like to buy it but I'd come home to find the locks changed and my stuff in the front lawn.

 

[Michael W.]

Good advice, I would also prefer an identified piece. I am double checking with the sellers to see if there is any information on the coats. The frock coat has been an elusive item for me so I have been leaning towards purchasing it. I didn't know I was going to be so interested in a greatcoat until the seller sent me the offer on his. I'll most likely end up with one, or both, and possibly "trade up" later.

I wish I was collecting when Cowans sold all of those coats. I hear I missed out on a lot of really nice coats sold at really low prices.

I did find a seller with Major General John McIntosh frock coat that I would love to have but he wants $14,000 for it. I'd like to buy it but I'd come home to find the locks changed and my stuff in the front lawn.

WOW, I just read up on McIntosh, who I am not familiar with. Colorful history. His was born in Florida, and he tried to get in to West Point, but his brother James was already a cadet there, which due to regulations kept him out. He managed to get in to the Naval Academy instead, and was a midshipman during the Mexican War. When the Civil War broke out, his brother James sided with the Confederacy, was promoted to General and was killed at the Battle of Pea Ridge. John worked his way up to brigade command in the Cavalry Corps Army of the Potomac. He was in a lot of well known engagements, including East Cavalry field at Gettysburg. He lost a leg at the Battle of Third Winchester in 1864, served until 1866, and officially retired in 1870. Awesome battle history for a brigade Calvary commander in the AoP. If the seller has all the documentation and provenance to go with, and in decent condition, I would gladly pay 14,000. But I would have to clear out my existing uniform collection (all of it) to afford it. I'm a Navy collector, so that wouldn't gel in my collection. But if I was a general uniform collector, or especially a cavalry collector, yeah, that would be in my sights.

 

[Billw12280]

WOW, I just read up on McIntosh, who I am not familiar with. Colorful history. His was born in Florida, and he tried to get in to West Point, but his brother James was already a cadet there, which due to regulations kept him out. He managed to get in to the Naval Academy instead, and was a midshipman during the Mexican War. When the Civil War broke out, his brother James sided with the Confederacy, was promoted to General and was killed at the Battle of Pea Ridge. John worked his way up to brigade command in the Cavalry Corps Army of the Potomac. He was in a lot of well known engagements, including East Cavalry field at Gettysburg. He lost a leg at the Battle of Third Winchester in 1864, served until 1866, and officially retired in 1870. Awesome battle history for a brigade Calvary commander in the AoP. If the seller has all the documentation and provenance to go with, and in decent condition, I would gladly pay 14,000. But I would have to clear out my existing uniform collection (all of it) to afford it. I'm a Navy collector, so that wouldn't gel in my collection. But if I was a general uniform collector, or especially a cavalry collector, yeah, that would be in my sights.

It is definitely an amazing story and I would absolutely love to have it. If I had $14,000 and it wouldn't cause me to be divorced I would jump at the opportunity to own it. I may see if the owner will do a layaway plan and just bypass the other coats .