Help Understanding CMSR for Independent Unit

[dfostermem]

I am trying to use CMSRs to validate lists I've found on Internet of members of Henderson's Scouts. When I pull up CMSRs associated with this unit, I'm coming up with a lot of names that were not on the Internet lists I have found. I'm afraid that I'm making some errors in my approach based on lack of knowledge about CMSRs in general.

What I'm doing is searching Fold3 using "Exchanged Battalion, CSA, O-Z AND Forrest's Scouts, CSA". The result contains several units associated with Forrest's Scouts. I then have been documenting those associated with Henderson's Scouts.

My main question is how accurate is CMSRs based solely on surrender in May 1865 with regard to the units they served in? If soldiers basically were included with a unit that they didn't serve with, does anyone have recommendations for sorting them out?

Since this unit served without pay, many of the soldiers have no pay records. Basically just the record of their surrender. Others have pay records where they received payment for forage. Does the lack of any pay record raise a flag that the soldier probably didn't serve with unit or was it common for soldiers to serve and have no pay record with these independent units?

Any insights/recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[RedRover]

So there was the independent company of scouts formed in early 1862 under Captain Thomas Henderson, known as "Henderson's Scouts." In 1864 this company was serving under Gen. Forrest, who appointed its commander, Capt. Henderson, to act as the "chief of scouts" within his command, which included a few other companies besides his own.

While Capt. Thomas Henderson, the commanding officer of Henderson's Scouts, was acting as Forrest's chief of scouts, over all of the scout companies, his brother Samuel Henderson commanded the company in his place...

Regarding Pay: Confederate soldiers stated they did not receive pay for long periods, especially near end.

General Joseph E. Johnston who surrendered the bulk of Confederate troops east of the Mississippi stated they had, by that time not received any pay for many months.

There were also, evidently, cases of men who actually joined the Confederate Army, but for some reason never enlisted or were mustered in. These gents would not have been due pay in any case, being considered serving only voluntarily.

According to the notes of the US War Department, in compiling the service records (CMSR's) in the 1890s from the surviving records on hand, there were no known Confederate Muster rolls of Captain Henderson's Independent Company of Scouts. They were either destroyed at the conclusion of the war, or were never forwarded to Richmond in the first place.

The compiled service records (CMSR's) are evidently made up from some periodic pay rolls captured by the USA at the close of the war. They show there was an undated pay roll, attached to a February, 1863 record which states it regarded service in November and December, 1862.

There is also a pay records for Sept.-Oct., 1863, and for June 5, 1864, etc. which were used in the compilation of the individual service records.


Finally there is the parole by United States forces at Gainesville, Alabama in May, 1865. which gives the names of the men on hand at that time. Any men that joined the company after the last surviving pay records for the company, who surrendered at that time, would not be otherwise documented.

The notes of the 1890s War Department clerks who compiled the CMSR records read as follows:

"Capt. Thos. Henderson's Co., Forrest's Scouts, C.S.A.

Personal papers in care of Thos. Henderson, dated Jackson, Tenn. Mch. 10/62, show he asked General G.T. Beauregard for authority to raise a Co. of Indpt. Rangers or Scouts, which was approved by Genl. Beauregard, same date. Another pers. Paper, dated Hdqtrs. Army of the Miss., Jackson, Tenn., Mch. 20/62, shows Capt. Thos. Henderson had permission to take the field in command of a detachment of Indpt. Scouts, and an indorsement shows he had authority to raise a co. of Indpt. Scouts. Various records in Confed. Arch. Sec. [Confederate Archives section], such as letters recd. A&IGO [Adjutant and Inspector Generals Office] & various Vols. of Official Records Union & Confed. armies, etc., show Capt. Thos. Henderson had a co. of indpt. Scouts, whose term of enlistment was for six months, and that the term was continued from time to time for six months, by the different commanders of Depts. Etc. under whom the co. served, as is shown especially by papers filed with letters recd. A&IGO of "H" 1864 [In the papers of the AIGO office, Richmond filed under H, in 1864]. The co. finally came under command of Maj. Gen. N.B. Forrest, as offil. Records Union & Confed. Armies, Ser. 1, part 2, page 773, vol. 39 reads:
"Hdqrs. Dept. of Miss. & W. Tenn.,… Aug. 12/64—Circular—Capt. Thos. Henderson is announced as chief of scouts for this department…all scouts now out under orders from Dept., Div. or other hdqrs. will be immediately ordered back to their commands." Two cos. of scouts are mentioned in this circular, Capts' Henderson's and King's Co.
[Official Records] Series 1 part 2, page 641 vol. 45 shows; "Hdqrs. Forrest's Cav. In the field, Dec. 2/64, Genl. Field order No. 1, par. 1, announces four regularly organized & recognized cos. of scouts for this command., viz. Capts. T. Henderson's, Harvey's, Kizer's & Cobb's Cos….
Individual paroles at Gainesville, Ala. May 10/65, are on file for the following officers of this co., viz. Thos Henderson, capt. & chief of scouts
Sam Henderson, 1st [Lt.] Henderson's scouts.
W.M. McConnell, 2nd [Lt.] Henderson's scouts.
J.S. Carman, 3rd [Lt.] Henderson's scouts.

Carded roll no. 128 of Gainesville paroles May 11/65, shows in caption: "Roll of P. of W. [prisoners of war] Co. Henderson's scouts unattached, by order of Secretary of War, commanded by Capt. Thos. Henderson." Certificate is signed by Thos. Henderson, Capt. & Chief of Scouts. The roll shows in remarks about 70 of the members' residence as in Miss., and about 63 as in Tenn., and about five as of various States."

Since there are no muster rolls for this unit, the details of individual enlistments, etc. are unknown. Also, without muster rolls or other records, the total number and names of casualties in the company before the company's surrender in 1865 is unknown.


According to Mr. Robert F. Ward of Mississippi, who joined Henderson's Scouts in 1864, they did not just take recruits. The men presenting had to have some papers attesting to their good character, gallantry, etc.

Jonesboro Daily Tribune, Jonesboro, Arkansas, 10-28-1922.

 

[dfostermem]

So there was the independent company of scouts formed in early 1862 under Captain Thomas Henderson, known as "Henderson's Scouts." In 1864 this company was serving under Gen. Forrest, who appointed its commander, Capt. Henderson, to act as the "chief of scouts" within his command, which included a few other companies besides his own.

View attachment 533674

While Capt. Thomas Henderson, the commanding officer of Henderson's Scouts, was acting as Forrest's chief of scouts, over all of the scout companies, his brother Samuel Henderson commanded the company in his place...

View attachment 533672

Regarding Pay: Confederate soldiers stated they did not receive pay for long periods, especially near end.

General Joseph E. Johnston who surrendered the bulk of Confederate troops east of the Mississippi stated they had, by that time not received any pay for many months.

View attachment 533670

There were also, evidently, cases of men who actually joined the Confederate Army, but for some reason never enlisted or were mustered in. These gents would not have been due pay in any case, being considered serving only voluntarily.

According to the notes of the US War Department, in compiling the service records (CMSR's) in the 1890s from the surviving records on hand, there were no known Confederate Muster rolls of Captain Henderson's Independent Company of Scouts. They were either destroyed at the conclusion of the war, or were never forwarded to Richmond in the first place.


View attachment 533671

The compiled service records (CMSR's) are evidently made up from some periodic pay rolls captured by the USA at the close of the war. They show there was an undated pay roll, attached to a February, 1863 record which states it regarded service in November and December, 1862.

View attachment 533673
View attachment 533675

There is also a pay records for Sept.-Oct., 1863, and for June 5, 1864, etc. which were used in the compilation of the individual service records.


Finally there is the parole by United States forces at Gainesville, Alabama in May, 1865. which gives the names of the men on hand at that time. Any men that joined the company after the last surviving pay records for the company, who surrendered at that time, would not be otherwise documented.

The notes of the 1890s War Department clerks who compiled the CMSR records read as follows:

"Capt. Thos. Henderson's Co., Forrest's Scouts, C.S.A.

Personal papers in care of Thos. Henderson, dated Jackson, Tenn. Mch. 10/62, show he asked General G.T. Beauregard for authority to raise a Co. of Indpt. Rangers or Scouts, which was approved by Genl. Beauregard, same date. Another pers. Paper, dated Hdqtrs. Army of the Miss., Jackson, Tenn., Mch. 20/62, shows Capt. Thos. Henderson had permission to take the field in command of a detachment of Indpt. Scouts, and an indorsement shows he had authority to raise a co. of Indpt. Scouts. Various records in Confed. Arch. Sec. [Confederate Archives section], such as letters recd. A&IGO [Adjutant and Inspector Generals Office] & various Vols. of Official Records Union & Confed. armies, etc., show Capt. Thos. Henderson had a co. of indpt. Scouts, whose term of enlistment was for six months, and that the term was continued from time to time for six months, by the different commanders of Depts. Etc. under whom the co. served, as is shown especially by papers filed with letters recd. A&IGO of "H" 1864 [In the papers of the AIGO office, Richmond filed under H, in 1864]. The co. finally came under command of Maj. Gen. N.B. Forrest, as offil. Records Union & Confed. Armies, Ser. 1, part 2, page 773, vol. 39 reads:
"Hdqrs. Dept. of Miss. & W. Tenn.,… Aug. 12/64—Circular—Capt. Thos. Henderson is announced as chief of scouts for this department…all scouts now out under orders from Dept., Div. or other hdqrs. will be immediately ordered back to their commands." Two cos. of scouts are mentioned in this circular, Capts' Henderson's and King's Co.
[Official Records] Series 1 part 2, page 641 vol. 45 shows; "Hdqrs. Forrest's Cav. In the field, Dec. 2/64, Genl. Field order No. 1, par. 1, announces four regularly organized & recognized cos. of scouts for this command., viz. Capts. T. Henderson's, Harvey's, Kizer's & Cobb's Cos….
Individual paroles at Gainesville, Ala. May 10/65, are on file for the following officers of this co., viz. Thos Henderson, capt. & chief of scouts
Sam Henderson, 1st [Lt.] Henderson's scouts.
W.M. McConnell, 2nd [Lt.] Henderson's scouts.
J.S. Carman, 3rd [Lt.] Henderson's scouts.

Carded roll no. 128 of Gainesville paroles May 11/65, shows in caption: "Roll of P. of W. [prisoners of war] Co. Henderson's scouts unattached, by order of Secretary of War, commanded by Capt. Thos. Henderson." Certificate is signed by Thos. Henderson, Capt. & Chief of Scouts. The roll shows in remarks about 70 of the members' residence as in Miss., and about 63 as in Tenn., and about five as of various States."

Since there are no muster rolls for this unit, the details of individual enlistments, etc. are unknown. Also, without muster rolls or other records, the total number and names of casualties in the company before the company's surrender in 1865 is unknown.


According to Mr. Robert F. Ward of Mississippi, who joined Henderson's Scouts in 1864, they did not just take recruits. The men presenting had to have some papers attesting to their good character, gallantry, etc.

View attachment 533677
View attachment 533678

View attachment 533679

Jonesboro Daily Tribune, Jonesboro, Arkansas, 10-28-1922.

Thank you for this great reply. It was very helpful in explaining everything and provided me with a lot of new information.

So to summarize based on my reading of your response, the CMSRs should have captured those who were in the unit in May 1865 at surrender (pay records not required). The CMSRs don't address how long the soldier was in the unit and would not provide names of those who served but were not with unit at time of surrender (death, transfer, etc).

That gives me confidence that my "project" is worth continuing. Based on what I've captured so far, my theory is that at least in the beginning recruitment focused on getting a few scouts from each of the counties in West Tennessee. This would make sense if the focus is on developing an intel network versus putting together a "fighting force". In reading Belle Edmundson's account, she seemed to interface with just a small group of the company. So my impression is that early on they worked alone or in small teams.

 

[lupaglupa]

It would be a lot of work but you could try to check pension records for the men you know of to see how they describe their service. That might help you narrow your focus.

 

[Stryker65]

I am trying to use CMSRs to validate lists I've found on Internet of members of Henderson's Scouts. When I pull up CMSRs associated with this unit, I'm coming up with a lot of names that were not on the Internet lists I have found. I'm afraid that I'm making some errors in my approach based on lack of knowledge about CMSRs in general.

What I'm doing is searching Fold3 using "Exchanged Battalion, CSA, O-Z AND Forrest's Scouts, CSA". The result contains several units associated with Forrest's Scouts. I then have been documenting those associated with Henderson's Scouts.

My main question is how accurate is CMSRs based solely on surrender in May 1865 with regard to the units they served in? If soldiers basically were included with a unit that they didn't serve with, does anyone have recommendations for sorting them out?

Since this unit served without pay, many of the soldiers have no pay records. Basically just the record of their surrender. Others have pay records where they received payment for forage. Does the lack of any pay record raise a flag that the soldier probably didn't serve with unit or was it common for soldiers to serve and have no pay record with these independent units?

Any insights/recommendations would be appreciated.

I have the parole list of all officers in Richard Taylor's department at the surrender (other than Forrest's corps, sorry), and the number of times that I've seen officers who hold ... questionable positions, whether in units that were most certainly not there, or don't exist at all ... it's a lot.

For sorting those out, I really have no idea, since I recognized the units straight-up and had to do a deep dive into each of them (for example, I found an entire company of the 12th Louisiana Infantry -- the regiment had left the department three months ago; I also found a lieutenant from Hood's Texas Brigade -- ???)

Considering that Forrest's corps (which of course was in Taylor's department) contained troops from both Wheeler's cavalry corps as well as some Trans-Mississippi cavalry, and that Taylor's department itself was a sort of holding ground for Johnston's, Kirby Smith's, and Hardee's armies, it's natural that there would be a lot of random troops around, which IMO makes it more fun!

 

[RedRover]

Thank you for this great reply. It was very helpful in explaining everything and provided me with a lot of new information.

So to summarize based on my reading of your response, the CMSRs should have captured those who were in the unit in May 1865 at surrender (pay records not required). The CMSRs don't address how long the soldier was in the unit and would not provide names of those who served but were not with unit at time of surrender (death, transfer, etc).

That gives me confidence that my "project" is worth continuing. Based on what I've captured so far, my theory is that at least in the beginning recruitment focused on getting a few scouts from each of the counties in West Tennessee. This would make sense if the focus is on developing an intel network versus putting together a "fighting force". In reading Belle Edmundson's account, she seemed to interface with just a small group of the company. So my impression is that early on they worked alone or in small teams.

The CMSR's were compiled by US Government clerks decades after the war, from the collection of records captured from the CS Army in the period 1861-65. A large proportion of CS Army records were destroyed upon the Confederate evacuation of Richmond in April, 1865.

The primary record of military units in that era is the "Muster roll." There would be an original upon the Units' organization. There would be periodic ones, every couple months, and a final one upon the disbanding of the unit. These rolls would contain the running record of the personnel of the unit. When enlisted and where; when last paid, etc. If absent why. Also their final disposition, as in dead, discharged, missing, etc. Apparently none of these rolls, if ever forwarded officially, were captured by the USA for official archiving. What was taken were a number of individual "pay rolls" for the company. These unfortunately only show who was on hand at that time, and does not given any enlistment information, or explain what happened to any man missing on a subsequent pay roll.

Since the Confederate War Department, and army, ceased rather peremptorily in April, 1865, there were no muster-out rolls which would have clarified the records by documenting every man of the unit and his final disposition.

The closest thing to it was the roster of paroles upon surrender. Like the pay rolls, the parole roster of 1865 just documents who was on hand at that time. The paroles were provided by the US Army, not the CS Army, and the purpose was not to document the Confederate unit, but to provide paroles to the men on hand at that time (who remained to receive them).

The above, combined with any other documents in the Government's collection of Confederate records, or records courteously provided by veterans, were compiled into the CMSR's.


As scouts, they would have frequently acted alone, in pairs, or in small groups.

For an idea of the nature of scouting service in the South, I might recommend the book "Fagots from a Camp fire" by Captain Louis J. Dupre. He chose not to write it up as a memoir, because the nature of the service was not such that official reports would do much to explain; but many reviewers thought he illustrated the curious and dangerous situation Confederate army scouts in that period rather well. Dupre suggests such scouts had not just to concern themselves about Union troops and movements, and Union army scouts; but local criminal gangs, sometimes composed of deserters, or draft dodgers, many of which disguised themselves as CS army scouts, besides pro-Union guerrillas, etc. etc. Dupre's work might explain in a manner why, for example, Henderson's Scouts would not take a man into its ranks without written testimony of his character and bravery.

Fagots from the Camp Fire

www.google.com

 

[dfostermem]

The CMSR's were compiled by US Government clerks decades after the war, from the collection of records captured from the CS Army in the period 1861-65. A large proportion of CS Army records were destroyed upon the Confederate evacuation of Richmond in April, 1865.

View attachment 533705


The primary record of military units in that era is the "Muster roll." There would be an original upon the Units' organization. There would be periodic ones, every couple months, and a final one upon the disbanding of the unit. These rolls would contain the running record of the personnel of the unit. When enlisted and where; when last paid, etc. If absent why. Also their final disposition, as in dead, discharged, missing, etc. Apparently none of these rolls, if ever forwarded officially, were captured by the USA for official archiving. What was taken were a number of individual "pay rolls" for the company. These unfortunately only show who was on hand at that time, and does not given any enlistment information, or explain what happened to any man missing on a subsequent pay roll.

Since the Confederate War Department, and army, ceased rather peremptorily in April, 1865, there were no muster-out rolls which would have clarified the records by documenting every man of the unit and his final disposition.

The closest thing to it was the roster of paroles upon surrender. Like the pay rolls, the parole roster of 1865 just documents who was on hand at that time. The paroles were provided by the US Army, not the CS Army, and the purpose was not to document the Confederate unit, but to provide paroles to the men on hand at that time (who remained to receive them).

The above, combined with any other documents in the Government's collection of Confederate records, or records courteously provided by veterans, were compiled into the CMSR's.


As scouts, they would have frequently acted alone, in pairs, or in small groups.

For an idea of the nature of scouting service in the South, I might recommend the book "Fagots from a Camp fire" by Captain Louis J. Dupre. He chose not to write it up as a memoir, because the nature of the service was not such that official reports would do much to explain; but many reviewers thought he illustrated the curious and dangerous situation Confederate army scouts in that period rather well. Dupre suggests such scouts had not just to concern themselves about Union troops and movements, and Union army scouts; but local criminal gangs, sometimes composed of deserters, or draft dodgers, many of which disguised themselves as CS army scouts, besides pro-Union guerrillas, etc. etc. Dupre's work might explain in a manner why, for example, Henderson's Scouts would not take a man into its ranks without written testimony of his character and bravery.

Fagots from the Camp Fire

www.google.com

This is very helpful. Dupre's book made me realized that I need to screen names against the Provost Marshal records. I would assume that some these might show up in the civilian files, assuming they used the same name while "scouting". On my father's side I have a Union man who used an alias during the war. Fortunately, that was documented in his records. My plan is that once I finish putting together this list from the paroles, I'll start cross checking them with other sources to see if I can validate them, develop greater bio info on them, and hopefully find some 1st hand or family stories about experiences with Henderson's Scouts. I'm beginning to think I've taken on something greater than I can handle. The original lists that I found on the unit had less than 100 names but so far (I'm up to letter "e") it looks like the CMSRs will give me several times that. But thanks to your help, I have a better feeling that I'm at least moving in a positive direction and understand better what I'm up against.

 

[lupaglupa]

Provost Marshal records are a bear to look through. They are roughly grouped by name, but there has been little effort to decide who the individuals were so different people with the same name are bunched together. They can be read at Family Search in two different files. One presents them alphabetically by name, the other by file number. Mixed in the file of names are index cards for records that refer to people but are filed under another name. Those have the file number on them where the name is referenced. You can toggle between the record groups to find those files. It's a slow process but does yield great results.

Those are probably terrible directions! I don't have time to really explain how to do the research right now but if this is totally confusing let me know and I will try and write it out more clearly.

 

[Georgian1950]

While i am not familiar with Henderson's Scouts, I'll make a remark in general.

Some soldiers who were involved with "irregular" activities used aliases when surrendering. Having papers was necessary in moving around in the immediate post war South, but giving a real name and real unit might lead to accusations of war crimes.

 

[Reconstructed Rebel]

Some soldiers who were involved with "irregular" activities used aliases when surrendering. Having papers was necessary in moving around in the immediate post war South, but giving a real name and real unit might lead to accusations of war crimes.

I would second that. Here's a quote from another thread regarding "scout" action along the Mississippi toward the end of the war.

In 1864, I think it was, Captain Evans appeared with his Confederate scouts. They were sent to Washington County to break up Yankees who were trying to raise cotton near Skipwith's Landing….They caught some of the civilians who were trying to raise cotton frequently, and the first stop they made was at Wayside to get breakfast. They usually "lost" their prisoners going through the cane-brakes from father's Redleaf plantation to what was the Sims plantation just above Arcola on Deer Creek. Going out there once just after them, I scared the buzzards from three bodies they had "lost."

Source:

….owing to her duty to protect and defend a large number of persons (then her slaves) | Researching Civil War Records & Ancestry

I think Irene Smith is haunting me. While searching for Worthington information I ran across this file - Paper of the Washington County Historical Society. Within the papers is Chapter 9, “Some Washington County Genealogy" and an article by Sam Worthington entitled "Ante-Bellum Slave-Holding...

civilwartalk.com

 

[dfostermem]

I've made some progress and like to pass along a couple of findings:

1. I pulled up the POW records for surrender and compared with CMSRs. Ends up there were a few in the POW records that weren't captured in CMSR. Also, there was a day's difference on Parole date between them.

2. It appears that the POW record generated at the surrender was based on a unit roster verses an actual muster of individuals. I have found several individuals who are reported as surrendered and paroled with the unit who have another record with different dates and locations. Such is the case of C C McDaniel who turned himself in in La Grange on a different date. Since some of the scouts were posted at various locations, this would make sense.

In A Lost Heroine of the Confederacy (about Belle Edmondson) I found a reference about W L Anderson had obtained papers from Thomas Henderson and that he was planning to write a unit history. It would appear he died without writing it. I did find that the Tennessee Archives has a small file with some of his papers. I am working with them to obtain copies.

 

[lupaglupa]

It appears that the POW record generated at the surrender was based on a unit roster verses an actual muster of individuals.

Everything I've read echoes this. Officers showed up and turned in lists they had of the men in the regiment whether the men were present or not. The lists are best guesses at the locations of the men, not proof of their presence at the surrender location.

The Tennessee Archives staff are excellent! You should get great help from them.

 

[dfostermem]

For anyone interested in Henderson's Scouts, I just obtained copies of papers placed in Tennessee Archives by W L Alexander that contain a hand written narrative on the unit. Some of the text implies it was written by Thomas Henderson but it could have been written by Alexander. It is a continuous narrative so it appears to be written after the war but it contains lists of personnel at beginning and then a year later. I'm still transcribing it which will take some time. The hand writing is difficult in places and the original paper has damage. I've already found references to losses in unit which would not have been in CMSRs. The original authorization in 1862 was for 25 men - a big difference from the head count at surrender. A couple of insights so far- Thomas Henderson scouted at Shiloh a few days before battle and was wounded before battle and not present. This appeared to be his first scout and he messed up and made changes in how they were to operate so it never happened again. One of his scouts was the last man in/out of Vicksburg and brought out the last dispatch from Vicksburg before surrender. Soon after a group of 25 men in the unit under LT Sam Henderson operated separately and the unit was never together again during the war. I'm about 1/3 way through so I'm sure that there will be more great insights. I believe that this is related to RedRover's post that references "Personal papers of Capt Thomas Henderson"

 

[lupaglupa]

For anyone interested in Henderson's Scouts, I just obtained copies of papers placed in Tennessee Archives by W L Alexander that contain a hand written narrative on the unit. Some of the text implies it was written by Thomas Henderson but it could have been written by Alexander. It is a continuous narrative so it appears to be written after the war but it contains lists of personnel at beginning and then a year later. I'm still transcribing it which will take some time. The hand writing is difficult in places and the original paper has damage. I've already found references to losses in unit which would not have been in CMSRs. The original authorization in 1862 was for 25 men - a big difference from the head count at surrender. A couple of insights so far- Thomas Henderson scouted at Shiloh a few days before battle and was wounded before battle and not present. This appeared to be his first scout and he messed up and made changes in how they were to operate so it never happened again. One of his scouts was the last man in/out of Vicksburg and brought out the last dispatch from Vicksburg before surrender. Soon after a group of 25 men in the unit under LT Sam Henderson operated separately and the unit was never together again during the war. I'm about 1/3 way through so I'm sure that there will be more great insights. I believe that this is related to RedRover's post that references "Personal papers of Capt Thomas Henderson"

It sounds like you are finding some great stuff - I hope you come back and share things with us!

 

[dfostermem]

It sounds like you are finding some great stuff - I hope you come back and share things with us!

Something new of interest (it also seems to confirm that Thomas Henderson was the author of the document) is that it states that Capt Goodman's Flag of Truce at Fort Pillow used "my crutch". I know Capt Henderson was injured just before Shiloh but its hard to imagine he used a crutch throughout war. I'll need to research that more. I'm not an expert on horses, but it would seem that if you required a crutch, being in cavalry would work better than a foot soldier.

 

[Story]

Got curious
Went off on a tangent
Found this

J.W. Gates of Henderson's Scouts | Period Photos & Examinations

John Ward Gates was a teacher in Madison County, Tenn. Originally, he joined the 6th Tenn Inf and served in Kentucky. Discharged for disability, he rejoined into the quartermaster corps. Somewhere along the way he joined Henderson's Scouts...

civilwartalk.com

 

[dfostermem]

I thought I would update this in case anyone is interested.

Henderson Scouts is buried in the unit Exchanged Battalion, CSA, O-Z AND Forrest's Scouts, CSA. There are 761 CMSRs associated with this unit . About 150 of these are associated with Henderson's Scout, another 200 are associated with the other Forrest Scout's companies, and the remainder are the Exchanged Battalion.

Many of the Henderson's Scouts CMSRs have some payment or muster type document associated with them which is helpful. I don't think I found any such documents with the individuals in the other Forrest Scout companies or the Exchanged Battalion.

I have gone through the CMSRs associated with Henderson's Scouts and found about 150 individuals who were listed in the surrender rolls for Henderson's Scouts. Of these, I have 9 who also have documentation of surrender at another place and time. I think there are more. I haven't gone through and looked up the 150 individually to locate CMSRs associated with other units that may have additional information. But this matches what everyone told me that the Roll of Prisoners of War at surrender is basically a list of who was thought to be in the unit at the time and it does not reflect an actual physical muster of the individual. I know in some cases the individuals were known to be elsewhere and the command was making sure that the paperwork was generated to cover for them (they were "scouts" in assigned locations who were later told to report to the nearest Provost Marshal. I have a suspicion that there might be a few cases of individuals who were not in the unit or never in the unit who were included to cover them. Hopefully with more work I'll be able to determine if that is the case.

To date I have a list of over 220 names that I have come across associated with the unit. So there are about 50 people that I'll be trying to determine why they didn't make it to the end. I know of three that were killed. Most probably transferred out or resigned. Some were probably taken prisoner and some deserters. There are also some who might have represented themselves as being in the unit who never were. So that is also a continuing effort.

Using the pay/muster rolls I found that I have about 90 of the 150 with some sort of record. Using them I have started trying to recreate a more detailed timeframe for their time in the unit. This is one area I could use help with. I have one record with no dates but it does mustered 2 months and amount paid with location it was turned in as Grenada, MS. I have rolls for the following periods: Nov-Dec 62, May-Jun 63, Jul-Aug 63, Sep-Oct 63, and Nov-Dec 63. So it is not during those periods. At first my assumption was Grenada would have been late in the war since it is deeper in Mississippi. I tried to look at what was happening then but only became confused with all the command changes in the Army of Mississippi. Thomas Henderson does talk about Van Dorn falling back to Holly Springs in Sep 1862, then falling back to Abbeville, and then falling back to Grenada. Given this, is it possible that the undated roll at Grenada is for Jan-Feb 63. In Belle Edmondson's Diary she says she met Thomas Henderson in Panola in Mar 1863 and Thomas Henderson sent her a letter in October 1862 from Abbeville. I've found references to Panola through Feb 64 and being in Oxford in Jun 1864.

Just so it's not lost in all the verbiage above: For someone familiar with operations in Mississippi, had the Confederate forces moved south in early 1863 that a "front of lines" unit would be in Grenada in Jan-Feb 1863?

 

[RedRover]

Just so it's not lost in all the verbiage above: For someone familiar with operations in Mississippi, had the Confederate forces moved south in early 1863 that a "front of lines" unit would be in Grenada in Jan-Feb 1863?

Some idea of the situation geographically.


A party of Henderson Scouts about Holly Springs in December, 1862, Southeast of Memphis. Lumpkin's Mill was reportedly about six miles from Holly Springs.

Charleston Tri-Weekly Courier, 1-27-1863.


In Jan.-Feb., 1863 Maj. Gen. Grant's army was concentrating at Milliken's Bend, LA on the Mississippi River in preparation for movements against Vicksburg. Grenada is 75 miles east of the Mississippi River, which, north of Vicksburg was traversed by federal warships, transports, etc. The Mississippi River being the front line to the Confederate forces in western Mississippi...

Sacramento Weekly Union, CA, 1-17-1863.

To the north of Grenada was the federal forces at and about Memphis, TN. And to the Northwest, Helena, Arkansas.

Scouts were watching the Mississippi River, which was the front line...

Charleston, Mercury, 1-14-1863.


From the Charleston Tri-Weekly Courier, Jan. 24, 1863:

From the Augusta Daily Constitutionalist, GA, 2-20-1863:

 

[RedRover]

I thought I would update this in case anyone is interested.

Henderson Scouts is buried in the unit Exchanged Battalion, CSA, O-Z AND Forrest's Scouts, CSA. There are 761 CMSRs associated with this unit . About 150 of these are associated with Henderson's Scout, another 200 are associated with the other Forrest Scout's companies, and the remainder are the Exchanged Battalion.

Many of the Henderson's Scouts CMSRs have some payment or muster type document associated with them which is helpful. I don't think I found any such documents with the individuals in the other Forrest Scout companies or the Exchanged Battalion.

I have gone through the CMSRs associated with Henderson's Scouts and found about 150 individuals who were listed in the surrender rolls for Henderson's Scouts. Of these, I have 9 who also have documentation of surrender at another place and time. I think there are more. I haven't gone through and looked up the 150 individually to locate CMSRs associated with other units that may have additional information. But this matches what everyone told me that the Roll of Prisoners of War at surrender is basically a list of who was thought to be in the unit at the time and it does not reflect an actual physical muster of the individual. I know in some cases the individuals were known to be elsewhere and the command was making sure that the paperwork was generated to cover for them (they were "scouts" in assigned locations who were later told to report to the nearest Provost Marshal. I have a suspicion that there might be a few cases of individuals who were not in the unit or never in the unit who were included to cover them. Hopefully with more work I'll be able to determine if that is the case.

To date I have a list of over 220 names that I have come across associated with the unit. So there are about 50 people that I'll be trying to determine why they didn't make it to the end. I know of three that were killed. Most probably transferred out or resigned. Some were probably taken prisoner and some deserters. There are also some who might have represented themselves as being in the unit who never were. So that is also a continuing effort.

Using the pay/muster rolls I found that I have about 90 of the 150 with some sort of record. Using them I have started trying to recreate a more detailed timeframe for their time in the unit. This is one area I could use help with. I have one record with no dates but it does mustered 2 months and amount paid with location it was turned in as Grenada, MS. I have rolls for the following periods: Nov-Dec 62, May-Jun 63, Jul-Aug 63, Sep-Oct 63, and Nov-Dec 63. So it is not during those periods. At first my assumption was Grenada would have been late in the war since it is deeper in Mississippi. I tried to look at what was happening then but only became confused with all the command changes in the Army of Mississippi. Thomas Henderson does talk about Van Dorn falling back to Holly Springs in Sep 1862, then falling back to Abbeville, and then falling back to Grenada. Given this, is it possible that the undated roll at Grenada is for Jan-Feb 63. In Belle Edmondson's Diary she says she met Thomas Henderson in Panola in Mar 1863 and Thomas Henderson sent her a letter in October 1862 from Abbeville. I've found references to Panola through Feb 64 and being in Oxford in Jun 1864.

Besides the men of a cavalry unit... don't forget their horses! Here's something on Private McConnico of Kentucky, who says he rode with the Henderson Scouts...

Daily Picayune, New Orleans, 1-31-1909.

Biography of Florida State Senator Yancey, a veteran of Henderson's scouts...

Weekly Florida Times-Union, Jacksonville, FL, 5-16-1889.

 

[dfostermem]

lupagllupa - Thank you!, your newspaper clip from Sacramento sounds like "Hindman" should be "Henderson". I never would have searched on "Hindman". That shows me that I need to spend time researching places and events associated with Henderson Scouts to locate possible references associated with them. Since they were all over the place and operating with other units, this makes it much more complicated, along with the fact that there were other units performing scouting.

As I was generating this reply, I realized that I am missing something. I'm finding that this is the biggest benefit of CivilWarTalk in that it forces me to reevaluate what I'm doing. I just realized looking at the few datapoints I have with pay documentation, the locations on them are where they were paid, versus where they were. Here is what I have:

Nov-Dec 62: This roll is undated but in fine print it says a letter was attached dated 20 Feb 63 from Jackson that says by order of Pemberton pay them for Nov 1 - Dec 31. Based on date of attached letter, assumed period as Nov 1 - Dec 31, 1862.

May-Jun 63: The roll is dated Sep 21, 1863, with no location. Has complete service dates listed.

Jul-Aug 63: The roll is dated Sep 21, 1863, with no location. Service dates don't have year but assumed to be 1863.

Sep-Oct 63: The roll is undated and has no location. Has complete service dates listed.

Nov-Dec 63: The roll is dated Merdian Jun 5, 1864. Service dates don't have year but assumed to be 1863.

Undated: The roll has "For pay at Grenada" with no date. No service dates are provided.

The above highlights that paperwork was not a priority for those involved when it comes to rolls and pay. Fortunately, they were good at paperwork with regards to scouting reports!

Thomas Henderson states that after the Federals were pushed out of Coffeyville, Henderson's Scouts established their headquarters at Panola in Jan 1863.

There are variations in the forms used to record the information, but my assumption is that doesn't provide a clue as to dates since those deal with the process of transcribing after the war. I have not been able to locate how to find original records. I did find a National Archive comment that for some CMSR data, the originals are not available to researchers due to poor condition. I can't say if originals would help but there are individuals missing that it would be good to verify that they weren't missed by transcribers.

So at this point, I have to assume the missing dates on the "Grenada" rolls must be dates not covered by known periods. Unless I can come up with how being paid at Grenada during a specific period, I'm not sure how to resolve this. Are there any Civil War pay clerk experts out there who have expertise on at what level payments were made and if there is any way to tie Grenada to a specific timeframe?