Sherman Help Me Understand What Sherman Did So Wrong At Surrender?

peteanddelmar

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Location
Missouri
I basically understand that politicians thought he was stepping on their toes.
But weren't he and Johnson just trying to get it over with quickly?
Wasn't Stanton a nervous Nellie?

Wasn't everything decided and anything these 2 generals did; could 't it just be over-ridden if it was wrong, later?
Does any of it make a man a scoundrel or a traitor?
Could it just be enthusiasm of the moment?

Did they really think Sherman and Johnston could overthrow 40 years of policies and 4 years of war?
And that Sherman was going to take his 60k men and march around ALL the union armies and install a dictator?

That's all hogwash!
 
I believe the terms were too lenient; he put something there about keeping private property I believe that went against what the Federal government wished to pursue. I'm sure other members will come along shortly to help answer too!

Did he mean keeping slaves? Or were they just panicking? Or did this show their desire to take actual southern land and such during a hard reconstruction?
 
Sherman went beyond what he was allowed to do and was negotiating an end to all hostilities affecting all the confederate armies, not just the one in front of him. He didn't have that authority.
 
If anyone did - not counting the politicians - it would be Grant.

It might also be noted that - unless I'm grossly mistaken - Johnston didn't have that authority (over his side) either.
 
Sherman went beyond what he was allowed to do and was negotiating an end to all hostilities affecting all the confederate armies, not just the one in front of him. He didn't have that authority.

Oh. Well he was like that. I wonder why Stanton was so afraid of him? Cause Stanton wanted to really run the show?
 
If anyone did - not counting the politicians - it would be Grant.

It might also be noted that - unless I'm grossly mistaken - Johnston didn't have that authority (over his side) either.

That's why they brought in Breckinridge. He was at that point in time not only a general but also the confederate Secretary of War.
 
Stanton was a bit of a nervous nellie at times, but the civil authority should never take lightly to generals trying to claim authority in that realm as well as their own.

That's why they brought in Breckinridge. He was at that point in time not only a general but also the confederate Secretary of War.

Which makes sense.
 
Sherman went beyond what he was allowed to do and was negotiating an end to all hostilities affecting all the confederate armies, not just the one in front of him. He didn't have that authority.

Thanks. I knew it had something to do with Sherman overstepping his boundaries but had no clue what.
 
Stanton wasn't afraid of him and didn't want to run the show.

What Sherman was doing was acting in a political manner when he was a military officer. He was overstepping his bounds.

Ah. Politics of great import. Not "shoveling fog". My worst blindspot.
Stanton acted afraid. Why investigate and spy and hound dog the man with telegrams?
 
Ah. Politics of great import. Not "shoveling fog". My worst blindspot.
Stanton acted afraid. Why investigate and spy and hound dog the man with telegrams?

I don't see him acting afraid. I see him upset that Sherman was putting his nose where it didn't belong.
 
I've always found the story of Joe Johnston and Sherman really heartwarming. Both were proud, at times hard-to-like men who nevertheless forged a powerful bond with each other after the war (they became and remained friends until each others deaths, with that famous story of Johnston refusing to put on his hat at Shermans funeral and dying shortly after of pneumonia) and really presented themselves well at the surrender. Much is made of Grant, Lee, and Appomattox (which is a great tale, don't get me wrong!) but this is the story that always makes me smile.
 
I've always found the story of Joe Johnston and Sherman really heartwarming. Both were proud, at times hard-to-like men who nevertheless forged a powerful bond with each other after the war (they became and remained friends until each others deaths, with that famous story of Johnston refusing to put on his hat at Shermans funeral and dying shortly after of pneumonia) and really presented themselves well at the surrender. Much is made of Grant, Lee, and Appomattox (which is a great tale, don't get me wrong!) but this is the story that always makes me smile.

I like the story of Breckinridge at the surrender. Sherman poured them all drinks, which B really enjoyed. He was sad when S put the cap back on the bottle. Later on, while B was chewing a plug of tobacco, Sherman got the bottle out again and was fiddling with it absent mindedly. B happily spit out the chaw to get ready for some more bourbon. But S just put the bottle down again, and B was downcast that he didn't get any more.
 
I like the story of Breckinridge at the surrender. Sherman poured them all drinks, which B really enjoyed. He was sad when S put the cap back on the bottle. Later on, while B was chewing a plug of tobacco, Sherman got the bottle out again and was fiddling with it absent mindedly. B happily spit out the chaw to get ready for some more bourbon. But S just put the bottle down again, and B was downcast that he didn't get any more.

He remarked to a friend how mean Sherman was to toy with them that way! LOL
 
I think it also has to be remembered in context--most nations just coming out of a civil war/ domestic upheaval face a military dictatorship led by the victorious commander (Cromwell, Napoleon, Santa Ana, etc), so Stanton was right to be cautious.

Another consideration is the timing--this is all happening in the hours and days after a conspiracy has nearly decapitated the US government. We know it had nothing to do with Sherman, but it's not exactly tinhat logic to wonder at the time and in the moment if assassinating the president, Secretary of State and VP might not have been part of a larger plan. When you realize Sherman's only superior (Grant) was also targeted, Stanton's freak out is somewhat understandable.

From Stanton's POV, you have a military commander dramatically exceeding his authority at the same time that his civilian and military superiors are targeted for execution. In the history of most countries that wouldn't be a coincidence.
 
Sherman was mightily offended by Stanton's actions and thoroughly infuriated at a nasty letter that appeared in the press, apparently put there by Halleck. He didn't seem to hold it too much against Halleck but his men did. When they passed by Halleck stood at a window watching them and they did not acknowledge him in any way! And, at the Grand Review, Sherman made a point of missing Stanton's hand while shaking everyone else's. As has been pointed out, Stanton had reason to be leery of a victorious general with a devoted army when the president had just been murdered and the secretary of state, along with several members of his household, seriously injured. Especially so when this same general had made a grand sweep into his (Stanton's) territory negotiating terms with the enemy. Sherman didn't realize it himself, but he was poised to make a great and solid coup. The idea never entered his head or even buzzed nearby, but it had to have stuck in Stanton's! He didn't know yet how extensive the plot to take down the Lincoln administration was, or whether the Confederates were responsible, and the mastermind/assassin was still at large. So was the Confederate president and his staff, and their gold. Lots of things going on to make Stanton most wary. Sherman never forgave Stanton for questioning his loyalty.
 
Sherman was mightily offended by Stanton's actions and thoroughly infuriated at a nasty letter that appeared in the press, apparently put there by Halleck...Sherman never forgave Stanton for questioning his loyalty.

Sherman has always struck me very much as someone whom you would not want to get on the bad side of. By all accounts a ferociously loyal friend (well until the second that the afore-mentioned friend made him stop being loyal), but an implacable enemy.
 
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