Help identifying gun

[Phitan]

Hello everyone,

Can someone help me identify this gun? I am told that it is from the Civil War Era. The top of the barrel says "STEEL" and there is a "16" etched into the side of the left side of the barrel near one of the hammers.

 

[Kurtlg]

It's a civilian percussion shotgun. The 16 may denote the gauge. Have you measured the bore diameter ? Have you found any makers names ? It could be from the Civil War era but there is no reason to believe it was used by any form of military.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

You've got a well used double barrel shotgun, which loaded with black powder and shot poured down the barrel and ignited with a percussion cap put onto each "cone" or "nipple."
There was a wooden rammer under the barrel, now missing.
I've described how this loads and fires - but this old timer is long past the time for use!

 

[scooter748driver]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.

I can't tell what kind of proof that is on the pic with the 16. 16 is likely the bore number. As Jeff said, it'll be hard to say whether this one was Civil War used or not. It looks like it has been refinished regardless.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy.

 

[Phitan]

It's a civilian percussion shotgun. The 16 may denote the gauge. Have you measured the bore diameter ? Have you found any makers names ? It could be from the Civil War era but there is no reason to believe it was used by any form of military.

Unfortunately no makers name on it at all. Thanks for the info and reply!

 

[Phitan]

You've got a well used double barrel shotgun, which loaded with black powder and shot poured down the barrel and ignited with a percussion cap put onto each "cone" or "nipple."
There was a wooden rammer under the barrel, now missing.
I've described how this loads and fires - but this old timer is long past the time for use!

Is there any hope of identifying the make/model? There is absolutely no other markings on it……I don't dare disassemble it and look inside do I?

 

[Phitan]

Welcome from the Fort Sumter and the Fredericksburg forums.

I can't tell what kind of proof that is on the pic with the 16. 16 is likely the bore number. As Jeff said, it'll be hard to say whether this one was Civil War used or not. It looks like it has been refinished regardless.

Thanks for the reply Scooter. I wish there was a make/model visible on it…..any recommendations on identifying the make/model?

 

[7thWisconsin]

That stock certainly looks like it´s been refinished fairly recently, and all the metal parts look like they´ve been reblued or even painted. I think that those are what are called ¨back action locks¨ (I just learned that term!) because all the moving bits are behind the hammer. I´d have a competent gunsmith look it over before I fired it, and even then I´d be careful. She might just be a wall hanger now.

 

[JackADriscoll]

After looking at the proofs I think it may be Belgian but here is a resource for proof marks https://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

These guns would have been sold in every hardware store during their time of use. The maker's name, if it is present, would traditionally be on the barrels. If a name is visible on the lock, it is often the name of the maker of the lock.

And sometimes the name you find is not the maker, but just a fake mark of a famous name meant to fool a buyer! The famous English maker "MANTON" was well known, and so you'll find that name stamped on arms that were made elsewhere by some unknown person!

 

[Patrick H]

It'll make a cool wall-hanger, but don't be tempted to shoot it. In fact, I suggest you get a long dowel rod (wooden) and slide it down each barrel, marking on the dowel where it stops. Then hold the dowel outside the barrels, align your marks to the muzzles, and see if it reaches to the breech plugs. This is a test to see if either barrel might still be loaded. If the dowel won't reach the full depth of either barrel, you might have a wasp nest or ratty old cleaning cloth, or dirt, or other obstruction down in the chamber...or it MIGHT be loaded. This is why you use a dowel for the test and not a straightened coat hanger (no chance of a spark.)

I agree your shotgun has been refinished or painted at some point. The long scratches running down the barrels suggest that someone sanded off rust years ago. Alternatively, they might be brush strokes from whatever has been painted on the barrels. Yes, those are back action locks. The barrels are probably twist steel--possibly damascus. I agree it's probably a 16 gauge. Your shotgun was once slender and elegant. I think it still has plenty of appeal. Rub some stain or shoe polish on your dowel to darken it, then slide it into thimbles under the barrels. Find a place in your man cave (if you have one) where you can display this old relic. I think it's cool!

 

[Old Soldier]

It is Belgian proofed ('perron' (tower) and the * over letter= inspector's mark) and the '16' MAY be the bore diameter - 16mm but I cannot see the Liege stamp - it maybe elsewhere, but that is unusual. (cursive EL = first proof)

The STEEL may indicate a barrel made after 1870 in the manner of the new-made Enfield Sniders which, for the first time had a steel barrel and were so marked.

 

[Old Soldier]

As Patrick H says - check to ensure there is no charge remaining in the barrel.

It looks to have been painted, so removing the paint may well show up some more marks, particularly underneath the barrels and on the outside of the locks (there should be another, smaller perron there)

It also looks as though it will dismantle without tools. Half cock the two actions. The metal slide on the forestock will slide out sideways one way or another and then carefully lift up the barrels keeping hold of the butt - a hook on the breech will be there to secure the barrels in the standing breech so it may need to be lifted some way.

So why painted (badly)? Either someone did not know what to do with it and/or it was in a real mess - probably after de-rusting. It will need a ramrod - almost certainly of wood with brass caps on each end (fairly standard on these Belgian guns). Here is a more expensive one:

 

[7thWisconsin]

I think it was painted to be a wall decoration. That would account for the finish on the stock, too. Heck, it might have been on the wall of a Cracker Barrell somewhere and somebody went ¨Hey - that´s a real gun.¨

 

[Old Soldier]

I think it was painted to be a wall decoration. That would account for the finish on the stock, too. Heck, it might have been on the wall of a Cracker Barrell somewhere and somebody went ¨Hey - that´s a real gun.¨

Decorations are not painted that badly.

 

[Patrick H]

As Patrick H says - check to ensure there is no charge remaining in the barrel.

It looks to have been painted, so removing the paint may well show up some more marks, particularly underneath the barrels and on the outside of the locks (there should be another, smaller perron there)

It also looks as though it will dismantle without tools. Half cock the two actions. The metal slide on the forestock will slide out sideways one way or another and then carefully lift up the barrels keeping hold of the butt - a hook on the breech will be there to secure the barrels in the standing breech so it may need to be lifted some way.

So why painted (badly)? Either someone did not know what to do with it and/or it was in a real mess - probably after de-rusting. It will need a ramrod - almost certainly of wood with brass caps on each end (fairly standard on these Belgian guns). Here is a more expensive one:View attachment 499593

I'm glad you posted the additional details of dismounting the barrels, etc. I considered suggesting that, but didn't do it. I cleaned up a Belgian wall hanger for my cousin some years ago, and discovered more marks under the barrels, as you say. Interestingly, I found the number 14 stamped under each of those barrels. I also cleaned up a Parker Brothers hammer gun for him. I only mention that because it had been painted--I believe with shellac. If our friend wants to remove the coating from his shotgun, he will probably have to experiment with various solvents or strippers to find out what will work. Finally, I'm glad you posted a photo of an attractive and clean muzzle loading Belgian shotgun, because it will give our friend a good visual goal for his own gun.