Lincoln Hating President Lincoln

[John Hartwell]

Over the past couple of decades we've seen a growing number of books, articles, and, certainly, threads on these forums, virulently attacking the character of Abraham Lincoln. This is in part, I'm sure, a reaction to the "Honest Abe," idealization, even idolization with which "The Great Man" has been lauded the past 150 years. Some people think that anyone "built up" must be "torn down."

During his presidency, thousands of people met, and dealt personally with the 16th president ... tens of thousands were personally, individually affected by his decisions and actions, and, of course millions affected by his administration's policies. He had friends, he also had opponents ... those in the North who disagreed with his policies, thought him weak, incompetent; and, of course, southerners who were his "natural" enemies simply by virtue of being "the other side."

A great many of those people wrote of their experiences meeting and dealing with Lincoln, pro and con, and expressing opinion of, not just his policies, but his character. But I wonder, just how many concluded, from first hand dealing with Lincoln, that he was personally corrupt, insincere, cruel, self-serving, duplicitous, etc, etc, etc (all the base motives and characterizations being bruited about by the current crop of professional Lincoln Haters)? What original, first hand attacks on Lincoln's character can be found from those who might have had some basis for knowing? And, why is it that only now have such attacks been publicized?

 

[Drew]

But I wonder, just how many concluded, from first hand dealing with Lincoln, that he was personally corrupt, insincere, cruel, self-serving, duplicitous, etc, etc, etc (all the base motives and characterizations being bruited about by the current crop of professional Lincoln Haters)? What original, first hand attacks on Lincoln's character can be found from those who might have had some basis for knowing? And, why is it that only now have such attacks been publicized?

I don't know if there's an answer to this question. Most of the contemporary criticism of Lincoln that I am aware of, relates to his monetary policy and creation of the 'greenback,' specifically. There are modern "Gold Bugs" who are convinced the End of the World will take place, tomorrow, because we all use paper money. That's Lincoln's fault and for the record, I'm not worried about what may be in my wallet. We're all supposed to buy gold in the here and now, to protect ourselves from Lincoln's folly. The Gold Bugs hate Lincoln, for sure.

He's been lionized for a long time and it's understandable there may be a backlash to this, beyond paper money. I'm really not a Lincoln-hater myself, but willing to ask tough questions - that's never a popular thing to do.

I'm going and look for a book in my mess that addresses Mr. Lincoln in a fun way. I'll get back to you with it.

 

[rpkennedy]

Over the past couple of decades we've seen a growing number of books, articles, and, certainly, threads on these forums, virulently attacking the character of Abraham Lincoln. This is in part, I'm sure, a reaction to the "Honest Abe," idealization, even idolization with which "The Great Man" has been lauded the past 150 years. Some people think that anyone "built up" must be "torn down."

During his presidency, thousands of people met, and dealt personally with the 16th president ... tens of thousands were personally, individually affected by his decisions and actions, and, of course millions affected by his administration's policies. He had friends, he also had opponents ... those in the North who disagreed with his policies, thought him weak, incompetent; and, of course, southerners who were his "natural" enemies simply by virtue of being "the other side."

A great many of those people wrote of their experiences meeting and dealing with Lincoln, pro and con, and expressing opinion of, not just his policies, but his character. But I wonder, just how many concluded, from first hand dealing with Lincoln, that he was personally corrupt, insincere, cruel, self-serving, duplicitous, etc, etc, etc (all the base motives and characterizations being bruited about by the current crop of professional Lincoln Haters)? What original, first hand attacks on Lincoln's character can be found from those who might have had some basis for knowing? And, why is it that only now have such attacks been publicized?

A lot of the hatred for Lincoln comes from a place of modern politics. Many believe, incorrectly, that Lincoln and the Civil War changed the form of government to something that it wasn't before, something more tyrannical and controlling. In the end, Lincoln becomes a whipping boy in order to support a modern ideology.

Ryan

 

[E_just_E]

A lot of the hatred for Lincoln comes from a place of modern politics. Many see, incorrectly, that the Civil War changed the form of government to something that it wasn't before, something more tyrannical and controlling. In the end, Lincoln becomes a whipping boy in order to support a modern ideology.

Ryan

Well, there is a some of that (and I would not call it "hate" per se), which is modern reactionary politics based on Lincoln getting billed as "the great emancipator", also a title he got in modern days.

As far as what people thought about Lincoln back then, there were a lot of opinions and diverse opinions as a matter of fact. Lincoln was elected without the majority of the popular vote, he was from Illinois (for crying out loud), and he was (based on contemporary accounts) pretty unusual looking. So there was disposition against him since day 1.
As far as his politics went, of course there were people who liked them and some who did not. Declaring Military Law in Maryland and tip-toeing the constitution as far as habeas corpus and first amendment rights went, did not make him many contemporary friends. He lost a few more with the emancipation proclamation that was followed by conscription (and a draft that rich can pay to get out of).

He was a politician. I'd love to see one that has 100% approval rating. Ain't gonna happen... So the disapprovers are sometimes louder than the approvers (and vice versa.) But (as usually) the truth is some place in the middle...

 

[Greyfalcon]

I guess it's just a matter of perspective as I have not noticed any anti--Lincolnism about. I think he is being revealed to be actually human and not just a statue. In popular American culture he is being portrayed as the skilful but morally motivated, Lincoln of the excellent 2012 Spielberg film, to a heroic action hero who slays Confederate vampires, "like a boss".

I doubt I will ever see President Davis portrayed in such light...

 

[rpkennedy]

I guess it's just a matter of perspective as I have not noticed any anti--Lincolnism about. I think he is being revealed to be actually human and not just a statue. In popular American culture he is being portrayed as the skilful but morally motivated, Lincoln of the excellent 2012 Spielberg film, to a heroic action hero who slays Confederate vampires, "like a boss".

I doubt I will ever see President Davis portrayed in such light...

To be fair, Davis looked like a vampire.

Ryan

 

[Allie]

Over the past couple of decades we've seen a growing number of books, articles, and, certainly, threads on these forums, virulently attacking the character of Abraham Lincoln. This is in part, I'm sure, a reaction to the "Honest Abe," idealization, even idolization with which "The Great Man" has been lauded the past 150 years. Some people think that anyone "built up" must be "torn down."

During his presidency, thousands of people met, and dealt personally with the 16th president ... tens of thousands were personally, individually affected by his decisions and actions, and, of course millions affected by his administration's policies. He had friends, he also had opponents ... those in the North who disagreed with his policies, thought him weak, incompetent; and, of course, southerners who were his "natural" enemies simply by virtue of being "the other side."

A great many of those people wrote of their experiences meeting and dealing with Lincoln, pro and con, and expressing opinion of, not just his policies, but his character. But I wonder, just how many concluded, from first hand dealing with Lincoln, that he was personally corrupt, insincere, cruel, self-serving, duplicitous, etc, etc, etc (all the base motives and characterizations being bruited about by the current crop of professional Lincoln Haters)? What original, first hand attacks on Lincoln's character can be found from those who might have had some basis for knowing? And, why is it that only now have such attacks been publicized?

A lot of people who met him personally thought he was a turd in a bucket and said so at the time - he was ugly physically, he made vulgar jokes, and he doesn't seem to have gone out of his way to conciliate those he disagreed with. He was even accused of an improper relationship with a male staffer. Everyone in the South thought he played with the law to suit himself and was an outright tyrant. It's hardly true that those attacks have only been published recently.

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

Over the past couple of decades we've seen a growing number of books, articles, and, certainly, threads on these forums, virulently attacking the character of Abraham Lincoln. This is in part, I'm sure, a reaction to the "Honest Abe," idealization, even idolization with which "The Great Man" has been lauded the past 150 years. Some people think that anyone "built up" must be "torn down."

During his presidency, thousands of people met, and dealt personally with the 16th president ... tens of thousands were personally, individually affected by his decisions and actions, and, of course millions affected by his administration's policies. He had friends, he also had opponents ... those in the North who disagreed with his policies, thought him weak, incompetent; and, of course, southerners who were his "natural" enemies simply by virtue of being "the other side."

A great many of those people wrote of their experiences meeting and dealing with Lincoln, pro and con, and expressing opinion of, not just his policies, but his character. But I wonder, just how many concluded, from first hand dealing with Lincoln, that he was personally corrupt, insincere, cruel, self-serving, duplicitous, etc, etc, etc (all the base motives and characterizations being bruited about by the current crop of professional Lincoln Haters)? What original, first hand attacks on Lincoln's character can be found from those who might have had some basis for knowing? And, why is it that only now have such attacks been publicized?

Replace the word "Lincoln" with "Lee"......
What I think will be found is that there are too many "historians" (looking to make a name for themselves by finding something "new") competing to be "right" in their assessments.....As always, the truth may be found in between the "good" and the "bad" in people.....Most often with "historians" having an agenda, their conclusions either fit their hypothesis or fit the general opinion of current politics and 21st Century beliefs......The answer, my friend, is all a matter of perspective within actual 19th century context. Something VERY few "historians" (looking to make a name for themselves) or readers of their works, fail to consider. Readers of books generally buy/read books that are written to agree with their opinions/pre-conceived notions.

 

[Drew]

To be fair, Davis looked like a vampire.

Ryan

No, he didn't. Not in his time and place. Lincoln was the vampire, depending on one's point of view.

This is the problem with the entire debate, it's been made a modern proxy war and we can't study it as history.

 

[E_just_E]

(1864)

(1864)

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

Bottom Line: ANYONE can be made either the Hero OR The Villain.......

"And thus I clothe my naked villany
With old odd ends stolen out of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil."......Richard III, William Shakespeare

 

[John Hartwell]

Oh, there was plenty of criticism of Lincoln and his policies, and ridicule of his appearance and supposed "back country" awkwardness. But, I am referring particularly to attacks on his character, his honesty and his good intentions and basic decency. Not rumor and gossip, certainly not political cartoons, but comments coming from those who actually knew and interacted with him personally or officially.

 

[Eagle eye]

A lot of people who met him personally thought he was a turd in a bucket and said so at the time - he was ugly physically, he made vulgar jokes, and he doesn't seem to have gone out of his way to conciliate those he disagreed with. He was even accused of an improper relationship with a male staffer. Everyone in the South thought he played with the law to suit himself and was an outright tyrant. It's hardly true that those attacks have only been published recently.

----------------------
Who accused Lincoln of an "improper relationship with a male staffer"?… PLEASE provide a reference on that statement.

 

[Allie]

----------------------
Who accused Lincoln of an "improper relationship with a male staffer"?… PLEASE provide a reference on that statement.

There's a thread on it around here somewhere... I'm speaking from memory. A lot has been made of this by modern revisionists who want to prove Lincoln was gay, but he had several close male relationships including one with one of his guards which apparently attracted ugly rumors even at the time.

 

[Allie]

Re: contemporaneous gossip about Lincoln. This is from Wikipedia.

Captain David Derickson was Lincoln's bodyguard and companion between September 1862 and April 1863. They shared a bed during the absences of Lincoln's wife, until Derickson was promoted in 1863.[42] Derickson was twice married and fathered ten children. Tripp recounts that, whatever the level of intimacy of the relationship, it was the subject of gossip. Elizabeth Woodbury Fox, the wife of Lincoln's naval aide, wrote in her diary for November 16, 1862, "Tish says, 'Oh, there is a Bucktail soldier here devoted to the president, drives with him, and when Mrs. L. is not home, sleeps with him.' What stuff!"[9]This sleeping arrangement was also noted by a fellow officer in Derickson's regiment, Thomas Chamberlin, in the book History of the One Hundred and Fiftieth Regiment Pennsylvania Volunteers, Second Regiment, Bucktail Brigade. Historian Martin P. Johnson notes that the strong similarity in style and content of the Fox and Chamberlin accounts suggests that, rather than being two independent accounts of the same events as Tripp claims, both were based on the same report from a single source.[43] David Donald and Johnson both dispute Tripp's interpretation of Fox's comment, saying that the exclamation of "What stuff!" was, in that day, an exclamation over the absurdity of the suggestion rather than the gossip value of it (as in the phrase "stuff and nonsense").

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Well, there goes the thread.

 

[Allie]

Well, there goes the thread.

Is there a problem?

 

[Greyfalcon]

To be fair, Davis looked like a vampire.

Ryan

I always thought he looked a bit like Peter Cushing...

Expired Image Removed

 

[rpkennedy]

No, he didn't. Not in his time and place. Lincoln was the vampire, depending on one's point of view.

This is the problem with the entire debate, it's been made a modern proxy war and we can't study it as history.

I was being entirely tongue-in-cheek.

Ryan

 

[Carpetbagger]

Those interested in this topic might want to read John McKee Barr's 2014 book Loathing Lincoln: An American Tradition from the Civil War to the Present published by LSU press.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0807153834/?tag=civilwartalkc-20

Here is a C-Span video of Barr discussing the topic - https://www.c-span.org/video/?322129-1/book-discussion-loathing-lincoln