Greenland

Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Location
Jupiter, FL
Wikipedia has an uncited statement that William Seward advocated the USA purchase of Greenland in 1867, though it doesn't seem this proposal led to negotiations with Denmark.

1. Is this true?

2. What value did the Seward see in Greenland in 1867?

3. How does this proposal relate to the USA purchase of Alaska from Russia in 1867?

4. What was the value seen in Alaska in 1867? The oil came later. Was it just the whaling fleet and wanting to get Russia out of North America?

Reminder: we are discussing American foreign policy in the 19th century. Discussion about 21st century Greenland issues is prohibited by forum rules.
 
Wikipedia has an uncited statement that William Seward advocated the USA purchase of Greenland in 1867, though it doesn't seem this proposal led to negotiations with Denmark.

1. Is this true?

2. What value did the Seward see in Greenland in 1867?

3. How does this proposal relate to the USA purchase of Alaska from Russia in 1867?

4. What was the value seen in Alaska in 1867? The oil came later. Was it just the whaling fleet and wanting to get Russia out of North America?

Reminder: we are discussing American foreign policy in the 19th century. Discussion about 21st century Greenland issues is prohibited by forum rules.
1. Yes. And we've tried to obtain Greenland at least twice since. In 1910, Taft tried to make a deal that sounds like something out of sports: Denmark gives Greenland to us. We give Denmark some islands in the Philippines. Denmark gives those islands to Germany because Germany wants to expand its presence in the Pacific. Germany gives Schleswig-Holstein back to Denmark. Truman also offered Denmark $100,000,000 in gold for Greenland in 1946.

2. Natural resources: Fish, whales, furs, coal and this.


3. Purchasing Greenland wasn't going to happen because people thought Seward was crazy to buy Alaska which he did first.

4. Natural resources again. I'm not sure that we wanted the Russians out of North America more than the Russians wanted to get out. Alaska wasn't all that valuable to Russia and the Crimean War had shown Russia to be vulnerable. They had more strategic interests closer to home that needed their attention.
 
1. Yes. And we've tried to obtain Greenland at least twice since. In 1910, Taft tried to make a deal that sounds like something out of sports: Denmark gives Greenland to us. We give Denmark some islands in the Philippines. Denmark gives those islands to Germany because Germany wants to expand its presence in the Pacific. Germany gives Schleswig-Holstein back to Denmark. Truman also offered Denmark $100,000,000 in gold for Greenland in 1946.

2. Natural resources: Fish, whales, furs, coal and this.


3. Purchasing Greenland wasn't going to happen because people thought Seward was crazy to buy Alaska which he did first.

4. Natural resources again. I'm not sure that we wanted the Russians out of North America more than the Russians wanted to get out. Alaska wasn't all that valuable to Russia and the Crimean War had shown Russia to be vulnerable. They had more strategic interests closer to home that needed their attention.
To follow up regarding Russia's interests, Japan's post-Meiji modernization (starting late 1860's) began to set Japan up as a possible competitor to Russia's emerging imperial efforts in the Pacific realm.
 
Alaska was sold off bythe Russians for $7.2 million in 1867 (equivalent to $132 million in 2024).
Why?
Having lost the Crimean War to France, Britain and the Ottomans, it was decided that Alaska was going to be a defense nightmare, if those same forces tried to invade, especially Britain from Canada. There were few Russian settlers there so they decised to sell it off. The USA bought it - with much rancour at home calling it it 'Seward's Folly' - useless land. Most of the Russian settlers left after the purchase leaving only the indigenous people - Inuit. Nothing much happened until the Klondyke Gold Rush of 1895 except for a fishing/seal hunting dispute with the British in Canada when the waters of the Bering Strait were recognised as international waters - not US waters.

Full story
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase
 
Wikipedia has an uncited statement that William Seward advocated the USA purchase of Greenland in 1867, though it doesn't seem this proposal led to negotiations with Denmark.

1. Is this true?

There was apparently some interest.

However, in the 1860s, Denmark's "colony" on Greenland was considered rather to occupy certainly the smaller part of Greenland. Norway harbored some claims to Greenland through the 1800s as well.

A century earlier, in the 1770s Denmark and the Netherlands were squabbling about it some. But later Norways' claim over Greenland was an issue resulted from the post-Napoleonic Wars Treaty of Kiel of 1814, where Denmark released all claim over the Kingdom of Norway, EXCEPT (in Article IV) to Greenland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands....

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There was some discontent over that Treaty by Norway apparently...

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Besides Greenland, the United States, and Secretary of State Seward, was in negotiation with Denmark from 1865, relative to acquiring its West Indian Virgin islands...

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The USA moved to procure the islands finally in 1916-17.

2. What value did the Seward see in Greenland in 1867?

The situation and resources of Greenland were laid out for the US Government in this 1868 report for Secretary of State Seward...


3. How does this proposal relate to the USA purchase of Alaska from Russia in 1867?


Former Secretary of the Treasury Robert J. Walker personally approved of the administration's official interest in Greenland for strategic purposes, alongside Alaska, for strategic purposes. Writing Secretary of State Seward on April 24, 1868, he opined...


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....

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The USA was at that time involved in the "Alabama Claims" dispute with Great Britain, which was settled in 1872.


4. What was the value seen in Alaska in 1867?

In December, 1866, President Johnson's annual message noted his negotiations with Russia, relative to procuring Alaska and the purpose therefore...

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The oil came later. Was it just the whaling fleet and wanting to get Russia out of North America?


The boundary between "Russian America" and "British Canada" had been a sticking point. The USA purchased Russia's American dominion and worked out a treaty with Britain relative to the boundaries and rights later.

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The American purchase removed Russia from the dispute. The British concerns were then directed toward the United States, and there was an international arbitration relative to the Behring Sea in 1893:


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As outlined in this Canadian publication from the British perspective...

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Alaska, like Greenland, Venezuela, etc., was otherwise always included under the umbrella of the Monroe Doctrine generally, which, according to Joshua Leavitt from 1863, was in effect whenever the Europeans attempt to institute a "balance of power" system/struggle over any part of the Western Hemisphere, which the United States views negatively....

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For example, by mid-1865 the USA was able to pay attention to the French intervention in Mexico, and Secretary Seward communicated that the United States opposed their idea of establishing a permanent Government there...

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After the French withdrew, Emperor Maximillian's government in Mexico collapsed, etc. in June, 1867.


Reminder: we are discussing American foreign policy in the 19th century. Discussion about 21st century Greenland issues is prohibited by forum rules.

The settlement of much of the above issues came in the early 20th Century, the USA fully acceded to and indorsed Denmark's singular claims to the entirety of Greenland in 1916, along with finally securing the Virgin Islands.


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However, any residual "preemptive" rights claims to Greenland by Europeans, should Denmark alienate its sovereignty, the USA does not recognize, as noted in this 1940 report by Secretary of State Hull:
 
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1. Yes. And we've tried to obtain Greenland at least twice since. In 1910, Taft tried to make a deal that sounds like something out of sports: Denmark gives Greenland to us. We give Denmark some islands in the Philippines. Denmark gives those islands to Germany because Germany wants to expand its presence in the Pacific. Germany gives Schleswig-Holstein back to Denmark. Truman also offered Denmark $100,000,000 in gold for Greenland in 1946.

2. Natural resources: Fish, whales, furs, coal and this.


3. Purchasing Greenland wasn't going to happen because people thought Seward was crazy to buy Alaska which he did first.

4. Natural resources again. I'm not sure that we wanted the Russians out of North America more than the Russians wanted to get out. Alaska wasn't all that valuable to Russia and the Crimean War had shown Russia to be vulnerable. They had more strategic interests closer to home that needed their attention.
Strangely, Iceland also has cryolite deposits - never touched and now not wanted - apparently. In any case Icelanders do not want industry other than to sustain the economy and lifestyle anyway, and are becoming increasingly protective of their ecology. My friend Griffi said they have enough problems with volcanoes without man made holes in the landscape.
 
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Would assume in 1867 still would had obvious value as a mid alantic naval base, as well potential coaling station for all northern shipping and whaling.

It seems other nations had interest as well.
 
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