Great Train Robberies

[USS ALASKA]

The Newton gang speaks !

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[Nathanb1]

You stirred up a faint memory for me Diane about the Newton Boys. I think they may be in the running for the last train stick up in Texas in 1924. EDIT: Oops robbery was outside Chicago. Missing money is rumored in Tx.

The Newton Boys are famously known for carrying out America's biggest train robbery on June 12th, 1924. Not only did they make history by stealing more than three million dollars on this one train heist, but this sealed the Newton Boys to become remembered as the most successful bank and train robbers in U.S. history.

In the aftermath of this large train heist, however, some of the stolen loot, around 100,000 dollars of it, became lost. It is believed to have been buried somewhere Northwest of San Antonio, Texas, and remains there yet to this day. Will it ever be found?

Carefully planned out by Willis, Joe was unable to say 'no' to helping him with a bank robbery. And so with the aid of Brent Glassock, Willis and Joe began their spree of notorious robberies. Doc and Jess Newton, two more brothers joined up with this team soon after. And over the course of the next few years (1920 to 1924), the Newton Gang, headed by Willis Newton, robbed over eighty banks and six trains.

http://mysteriouswritings.com/the-l...wton-boys-and-americas-biggest-train-robbery/
​

And I'm fairly confident that Joe Newton was the only train bandit to sit down with Johnny.

Willis and Joe bought a lot of tack at my great grandfather's estate sale (found 'em on the buyers' list!)...my grandfather and father knew them well (horses, you know...). And both my parents went to the cave they hid out in on the Babb Ranch between Pandale and Langtry. Daddy worked for the Babbs as a young man, and when they visited after their marriage, Walter Babb took them around to some of the caves (one still had Indian artifacts inside).

On my mom's side, Blackjack Ketchum, who is so far the only man to hang for train robbery in the US and his brother, who died from a shootout after a robbery, were from this part of Texas.

 

[Nathanb1]

Of course they had to make a movie about it. Starring Matthew McConaughey...Alright ladies let's just settle down here.

Part of the movie was made in Bertram, Texas....home of the Oatmeal Festival. I kid you not.

 

[Nathanb1]

I love this photo....probably not something my grandmother would have appreciated...and I've posted it here and there.

We'll get back to Blackjack's hanging in just a minute...he was her cousin's uncle...Berry Ketchum was the father of her cousin (outwardly respectable...may have been, because all the other kids turned out okay; but there are still rumors being published about his possible involvement in holding and selling stolen livestock--and yes, @JPK Huson 1863, that includes horses! Berry was the oldest, and when his parents died in San Saba County...well, read for yourself!

I always forget about Sam, his brother, who was also a train robber...so they're #1 & 2 on Mom's side of the family (felons, that is...)

http://williamemcclintock.com/bloghome/a-really-bad-day-for-blackjack-ketchum
http://www.natemaas.com/2010/12/tom-black-jack-ketchum.html

On Daddy's side, I found this guy...who apparently predated the James boys' first train robbery.

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/a-yankee-train-robber.137459/

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Part of the movie was made in Bertram, Texas....home of the Oatmeal Festival. I kid you not.

This doesn't surprise me at all. Whenever I think of Texas the first thing that always pops into my mind is oatmeal. Of course those big bowls that ya'll use seems a bit strange.

 

[diane]

So I wonder when the last train robbery took place in the United States or was it that one in 1924?

We're still wondering when the first one took place - there was one in October of 1866 by the Reno brothers, which is considered by some to be the first peace time train robbery. The earlier one I mentioned was in May of 1865 and could be considered part of the war - except no one was caught so no one knows if the robbers were Confederates or Federals or neither! Train wrecking was just about a hobby on both sides - these fellows knew exactly what they were doing.

 

[Nathanb1]

The Kentucky robbery was in 1866, but I can't access the dates in Rootsweb and am having heck looking...sure wasn't successful, though!

 

[John S. Carter]

Did the raiders or guerrillas of the Confederate make any train robberies?This would have given the James and other Confederate guerrillas training for future career

Great Train Robberies

1. The First Train Robbery in the West
Although Jesse James popularly gets credit for committing the first train robbery, the following robbery actually predates his: On November 5, 1870, just west of Reno, NV, a Central Pacific passenger train was overtaken by a gang of robbers who'd been tipped off that the train was carrying gold worth $60,000. The conductor was forced to apply the brakes and separate the engine, tender, baggage and express cars from the rest of the train. The engineer was then taken to the express car to request admittance. When the door opened, the expressman was greeted three sawed off shotguns. By prying open boxes in the express car, the gang was able to uncover $41,000 in gold coins. The spoils weighed over 150 lbs. However, the robbers inadvertently left behind $8,000 in silver, $15,000 in hidden gold bars, and piles of bank drafts. (Keep in mind that an acre of land cost about $5 at the time.) All of the robbers were apprehended or killed before being able to enjoy their bounty.


2. Jesse James' first Train Robbery
The notorious gang leader, Jesse James, is a Wild West legend. He and his colleagues the James-Younger gang, had already established a local reputation for crime before the legendary robbery. Former confederate guerillas, the gang dressed in KKK garb. They then loosened part of the track and attached a rope to it near the Adair, Iowa station. As the Rock Island train approached the station on July 21, 1873, the engineer saw the rope tied to the rail. He attempted to back the train up to avoid the hazard, but was unsuccessful. The engine, tender, and baggage cars were derailed and the engineer killed. Jesse and his brother Frank, approached the expressman with cocked 44's. The James-Younger gang rode off with nearly $3,000—worth about $51,000 today.

3. Gads Hill Missouri Great Train Robbery
Jesse James may not have been the first to rob a train in the West, but he was the first to rob one in Missouri. On January 31, 1874, the James-Younger gang rode into the small town of Gads Hill, population 15. They were again dressed in KKK masks and sent shock waves through the small community. They lit a bonfire within sight of the station platform and had one member to the gang stand on the platform holding a red signal lamp. The train did not normally stop at the Gads Hill station but was scheduled to do so that day in order for State Rep. L.M. Farris to meet up with his son. As the train neared the station, the conductor jumped off the train to see what was going on, he was seized and the train was switched to a siding. The gang members boarded the train, raided the express/mail car and then systematically relieved the passengers of their jewelry and currency.

_flossy fact: They spared any man who had calloused hands, because they didn't wish to steal from the working class. All except one woman, who had $400 in gold coins, were also spared.

4. The Wilcox Robbery
The Wild Bunch, with infamous members Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, went out with a bang for their final train robbery. On June 2, 1899 around 2:30 AM, the Union Pacific Overland Flyer No. 1 was flagged down by two men with warning lights. The men overtook the first engine and made the engineer disconnect the second part of the train, which had its own engine. Then they blew up a small wooden bridge after the first engine had passed over, to prevent anyone in the second section from following. Forcing the trainmen over to the mail car to begin their raid, three of the bandits blew the door off of the car with dynamite. Not satisfied with what they found, the gang continued on to the express car. There they found the express car messenger. When he refused to open the door for the robbers, they opened it themselves with more dynamite. The blast left the messenger stunned and unable to relay the combination, so they blew the safe open with more dynamite, using such an excessive amount of the "giant powder" that the entire car was destroyed. They escaped on horses they had hidden nearby with over $50,000 in loot.

5. The Largest Train Robbery in the United States
On June 14, 1924, the Newton gang stole the largest sum ever from a United States train. The Newton boys, all brothers, were known for never killing anyone. They also never stole from women and children. Still, they were still the most successful bank robbers in the United States. For this big heist, they recruited postal inspector William J. Fahy, one of the best investigators at the time, to help them plan it. Also in their employ were several local gangsters. Instead of horses, the Newton gang boasted fast cars. Taking hold of a mail train in Roundout, IL, just outside of Chicago, using homemade tear gas bombs of formaldehyde, the gang rounded up $3 million dollars in cash, jewelry and securities. One of the gang members accidentally shot Dock Newton during the heist. This slip up led to the capture of the gang members. Within 7 months of the heist, all suspects were apprehended and sentenced.

6. The Great Gold Robbery
The Wild West was not the only stage for train robberies. In 1855, a train carrying gold bars from London to Paris was the victim of an "invisible" robbery. The gold was stored sealed, bound by iron bars, and secured in double key safes. The highly guarded bars were weighed after completing its traverse of the English Channel via boat, but two of the safes weighed slightly more and one slightly less than the original weight. In Paris, it was discovered that the gold had been replaced by lead shots. Masterminds William Pierce and Edward Agar, with the help of a railway clerk, had boarded the train with carpet bags and shoulder satchels full of lead shots. They disembarked in Dover with £12,000 worth of gold. That would be worth approximately $1,253,962 today. All were quickly caught and jailed.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/25825/10-great-train-robberies

Did Confederate raiders or guerrillas commit any rail robberies ? This would have provided the James and other noted train robbers a training into their future career.

 

[Bee]

Did Confederate raiders or guerrillas commit any rail robberies ? This would have provided the James and other noted train robbers a training into their future career.

I was researching your question, and found this instead!

The Train Robbery That Almost Won the Civil War
Union soldiers paid with their lives for their failed theft of a locomotive—and became America's first Medal of Honor winners for their heroics.
Marc Wortman
06.03.17 12:15 AM ET

Alexander Crosman peered through his telescope from the deck of his Union Army gunboat. What the commander of the USS Somerset saw bewildered him. Nearly 18 miles from shore, off the Confederate-held city of Apalachicola, Florida, Crosman watched two men standing in a small skiff and waving frantically at the military ship. Crosman ordered his ship's guns leveled and an armed guard on deck.

As the skiff drew closer, he looked down at the men. They were skeletal, naked excepting only rags for pants and vests made of moss. Their skin was bruised, raw, and bleeding from sores and cuts, covered with insect bites and blisters. The naval officer barked, "Who in hell are you, and what are you paddling under my guns in this manner for?" Their parched throats could barely gasp the words out. What they said shocked Crosman.

They claimed to be Federal soldiers, privates from Ohio. Their army was battling rebel forces in Tennessee, some 500 miles away. Thinking they were deserters, Crosman growled that they were a "damned long ways from camp." Not deserters, they insisted—escapees. They were secret infiltrators behind enemy lines, part of the now famous Great Locomotive Chase, a daring but ill-fated raid Union forces hoped would cut the Southern rebellion's throat.

Barely able to stand, the two men, Alf Wilson and Mark Wood, came aboard. They asked Crosman the date. It was Nov. 10, 1862. They had been on the run through the heart of rebel territory for 25 days, covering some 350 miles since escaping the prison where they and the other survivors among their fellow raiders had been held in Atlanta. They broke out with only the clothes on their backs just two days before they expected to be hanged. As far as they knew, they were the last alive of the 22 men who had set out eight months earlier through the Confederate lines on a secret raid that, despite its failure, would rattle the Southern rebellion to its core. Had the men succeeded in the daring operation, they might have ended the Civil War three years earlier and with hundreds of thousands fewer casualties than it took to finish off the Confederacy.

Rest of the story HERE https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-train-robbery-that-almost-won-the-civil-war​

 

[diane]

Did Confederate raiders or guerrillas commit any rail robberies ? This would have provided the James and other noted train robbers a training into their future career.

That 1865 one at North Bend Ohio may well have been conducted by guerillas - they were darn professional and knew how to scatter. It may have been a war time operation except no one knows who ordered it or why. More likely defeated rebel partisans...the Confederacy is toast let's grab some Yankee money and blow this popsicle stand. Never caught so much as a pin feather of them! Wouldn't be surprised if they took up tomato farming in California or ranching in Colorado...

 

[diane]

I was researching your question, and found this instead!

The Train Robbery That Almost Won the Civil War
Union soldiers paid with their lives for their failed theft of a locomotive—and became America's first Medal of Honor winners for their heroics.
Marc Wortman
06.03.17 12:15 AM ET

Alexander Crosman peered through his telescope from the deck of his Union Army gunboat. What the commander of the USS Somerset saw bewildered him. Nearly 18 miles from shore, off the Confederate-held city of Apalachicola, Florida, Crosman watched two men standing in a small skiff and waving frantically at the military ship. Crosman ordered his ship's guns leveled and an armed guard on deck.

As the skiff drew closer, he looked down at the men. They were skeletal, naked excepting only rags for pants and vests made of moss. Their skin was bruised, raw, and bleeding from sores and cuts, covered with insect bites and blisters. The naval officer barked, "Who in hell are you, and what are you paddling under my guns in this manner for?" Their parched throats could barely gasp the words out. What they said shocked Crosman.

They claimed to be Federal soldiers, privates from Ohio. Their army was battling rebel forces in Tennessee, some 500 miles away. Thinking they were deserters, Crosman growled that they were a "****ed long ways from camp." Not deserters, they insisted—escapees. They were secret infiltrators behind enemy lines, part of the now famous Great Locomotive Chase, a daring but ill-fated raid Union forces hoped would cut the Southern rebellion's throat.

Barely able to stand, the two men, Alf Wilson and Mark Wood, came aboard. They asked Crosman the date. It was Nov. 10, 1862. They had been on the run through the heart of rebel territory for 25 days, covering some 350 miles since escaping the prison where they and the other survivors among their fellow raiders had been held in Atlanta. They broke out with only the clothes on their backs just two days before they expected to be hanged. As far as they knew, they were the last alive of the 22 men who had set out eight months earlier through the Confederate lines on a secret raid that, despite its failure, would rattle the Southern rebellion to its core. Had the men succeeded in the daring operation, they might have ended the Civil War three years earlier and with hundreds of thousands fewer casualties than it took to finish off the Confederacy.

Rest of the story HERE https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-train-robbery-that-almost-won-the-civil-war​

Those two had some nerve! The others who escaped split up, one pair heading north and another heading northwest but these two decided their best bet was straight through Dixie! Guess it was - the others were recaptured. By the way, my husband's ancestor was Peter Bracken, the engineer of the Texas who chased the General driving backward. Like in this clip...and he did resemble Slim Pickens!

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=110&v=vcpn5OZR4ek

 

[Aussie Billy Sherman]

That explosion has always looked incredibly dangerous to me. I know it wasn't Newman or Redford standing there but even for stunt guys that looks rough.

 

[TinCan]

Enjoyed that very much Bee, every time o be joyful thinks of Texas he thinks of oatmeal, now that IS strange.

 

[O' Be Joyful]

Enjoyed that very much Bee, every time o be joyful thinks of Texas he thinks of oatmeal, now that IS strange.

Well everything is BIGGER in TEXAS including their BOWLS...am I right? I live a sheltered life. I have heard there are a couple cows roamin about, and a rumor of some oil there -abouts.

 

[Patrick H]

I was researching your question, and found this instead!

The Train Robbery That Almost Won the Civil War
Union soldiers paid with their lives for their failed theft of a locomotive—and became America's first Medal of Honor winners for their heroics.
Marc Wortman
06.03.17 12:15 AM ET

Alexander Crosman peered through his telescope from the deck of his Union Army gunboat. What the commander of the USS Somerset saw bewildered him. Nearly 18 miles from shore, off the Confederate-held city of Apalachicola, Florida, Crosman watched two men standing in a small skiff and waving frantically at the military ship. Crosman ordered his ship's guns leveled and an armed guard on deck.

As the skiff drew closer, he looked down at the men. They were skeletal, naked excepting only rags for pants and vests made of moss. Their skin was bruised, raw, and bleeding from sores and cuts, covered with insect bites and blisters. The naval officer barked, "Who in hell are you, and what are you paddling under my guns in this manner for?" Their parched throats could barely gasp the words out. What they said shocked Crosman.

They claimed to be Federal soldiers, privates from Ohio. Their army was battling rebel forces in Tennessee, some 500 miles away. Thinking they were deserters, Crosman growled that they were a "****ed long ways from camp." Not deserters, they insisted—escapees. They were secret infiltrators behind enemy lines, part of the now famous Great Locomotive Chase, a daring but ill-fated raid Union forces hoped would cut the Southern rebellion's throat.

Barely able to stand, the two men, Alf Wilson and Mark Wood, came aboard. They asked Crosman the date. It was Nov. 10, 1862. They had been on the run through the heart of rebel territory for 25 days, covering some 350 miles since escaping the prison where they and the other survivors among their fellow raiders had been held in Atlanta. They broke out with only the clothes on their backs just two days before they expected to be hanged. As far as they knew, they were the last alive of the 22 men who had set out eight months earlier through the Confederate lines on a secret raid that, despite its failure, would rattle the Southern rebellion to its core. Had the men succeeded in the daring operation, they might have ended the Civil War three years earlier and with hundreds of thousands fewer casualties than it took to finish off the Confederacy.

Rest of the story HERE https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-train-robbery-that-almost-won-the-civil-war​

What a story! I was familiar with the Andrews raid, and I saw the movie at the theater when it was new. I'd never read or heard how the survivors managed to get away. Thanks for posting this.

 

[CW Watch & Sword Guy]

Bee, Since you obviously love railroad lore, you might enjoy a book I have:

"Scalded to Death by the Steam: The True Stories of Railroad Disasters and the Songs that were Written About Them, with Words and Music to Famous Railroad Ballads," by Katie Letcher Lyle.

Got to run now, but I'll post some lyrics later.

 

[Bee]

Bee, Since you obviously love railroad lore, you might enjoy a book I have:

"Scalded to Death by the Steam: The True Stories of Railroad Disasters and the Songs that were Written About Them, with Words and Music to Famous Railroad Ballads," by Katie Letcher Lyle.

Got to run now, but I'll post some lyrics later.

I look forward to reading more on the topic. My assistant has already been informed of upcoming "field trips" related to railroad history

 

[diane]

What a story! I was familiar with the Andrews raid, and I saw the movie at the theater when it was new. I'd never read or heard how the survivors managed to get away. Thanks for posting this.

Oh, pick up a copy of Stealing the General, Russel Bonds - you'll love it. The two raiders who went south would never have made it if the Englishman hadn't known his clams!

 

[CW Watch & Sword Guy]

Bee, Since you obviously love railroad lore, you might enjoy a book I have:

"Scalded to Death by the Steam: The True Stories of Railroad Disasters and the Songs that were Written About Them, with Words and Music to Famous Railroad Ballads," by Katie Letcher Lyle.

Got to run now, but I'll post some lyrics later.

"The Wreck of the Old 97"

They give him his orders at Monroe, Virginia,
Sayin, "Pete, you're way behind time.
That is not 38, but it's old 97.
You must put her into Spencer on time."

He looked round and said to his black greasy fireman,
"Just shovel in a little more coal.
And when we reach White Oak Mountain,
You can watch old 97 roll."

It's a mighty rough road from Lynchburg to Danville,
And a line on a three-mile grade.
It was on that grade that he lost his average,
And you see what a jump he made.

He was goin' down grade makin' 90 miles an hour,
When his whistle broke into a scream.
He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle,
And a' scalded to death by the steam.

Now Ladies, you must take warnin',
From this time now on,
Never speak hard words to your true lovin' husband,
He may leave you and never return.

The exact words, and even the tune, will vary depending on the source. But that is one of the charms of "folk music."

 

[diane]

We just got to set up a thread for railroad songs!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yhvv234oaA