Future Leaders in the CSA

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Luke Freet

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Nov 8, 2018
So, lets say the CSA manages to win against the Union and peace is signed (Im gonna put 1864 as the year of change, since that is where most of my research into possible alt history scenarios has been directed)
Tensions sparked by nationalistic sentiment, fostered by a recently elected veteran (in my mind, John Logan) restarts the conflict.

Who will be the new prominent officers and Generals of the recovered Confederacy?
 
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jackt62

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New York City
So the CSA defeats the Union in 1864, but the conflict is restarted some time thereafter? I don't see any particular changes in CSA leadership starting with Lee and Davis. Presumably, the opposition to Davis would have disintegrated had he been able to achieve confederate independence by signing a peace agreement with the Union. Lee of course, remains right up there. The only leadership changes there might be could be various shuffling of corps and division commanders but I'll have to think about which ones.
 

steve59p

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So, lets say the CSA manages to win against the Union and peace is signed (Im gonna put 1864 as the year of change, since that is where most of my research into possible alt history scenarios has been directed)
Tensions sparked by nationalistic sentiment, fostered by a recently elected veteran (in my mind, John Logan) restarts the conflict.

Who will be the new prominent officers and Generals of the recovered Confederacy?
Luke

Just to clarify this is John A Logan, 1826-1886 OTL? From his Wiki entry he was politcially active for the Democrats before the war then the Republicans after it and was a senator from 1871. Is that about the time you assume he becomes President - presuming that's what you mean by "a recently elected veteran" or later? Doubt is would be earlier and 1872 could well be pretty ****ed early but might be possible. Also what if any significant events occur between war ending and the new one starting? A lot would depend on military, political and economic changes in the intervening period. Also what states and regions the south consists of, such as for instance did it get back Louisiana and the lower Mississippi?

Important because there will be effects on who's available. Most noticeably Lee OTL had health problems post-war and died in 1870 so he probably won't be an option for the south.

Frankly I don't know enough to really contribute directly I suspect but others can. However they would probably need to have a clearer idea of the date and events leading up too it. Is it simply he's a war hawk and as soon as the March after the election he's pushing Congress for war or are there other factors involved.

Also similarly what's happening in terms of foreign relations? The south is likely to still be pretty much a pariah, because of slavery but if its gained independence that probably means its been formally recognised both by the union and by assorted other powers so any attempt at a total blockade is likely to cause diplomatic problems for the north even if they can establish one. The latter could be difficult if their had to give up all bases south of Maryland say.

Steve
 
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JAGwinn

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Jun 13, 2016
Location
Bloomington, IL Corvette Gold
Could a victorious CSA have the economic recovery to alleviate the discomfited populace? Without Northern food, the South would have a full two years to receive a food crop and an economic crop of cotton. The North and Reconstruction allowed the Southern people to survive the famine years.
An what about the loss of males in the South? Could the remaining shoulder the load of recovery from the war without the North?
 

Luke Freet

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Idk and IDC what scenario it is that gains peace.
What I am getting at is: Who remains in the Confedrate States military (ACSA) after the demobilization of the volunteer regiments; who returns to civilian life or retires (Lee I assume would retire from age; he's die just 6 years later); what ranks would they hold (and fun tie in to my old ACSA organization thread, what units they would be given)?
Link to old ACSA organization discussion thread.
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/post-war-confederate-military-organization.151663/page-2
Google doc for the my notes on ACSA
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/post-war-confederate-military-organization.151663/page-2
 
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Luke Freet

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Lets see, if we are going with an alt-1864 Scenario (note: this could also apply to 1862 scenario):
Longstreet would either be a Full General or President.
John B. Gordon would either be Governor of Georgia or Lt. General
S. D. Lee would be Lt. General or even a Full General
Joe Wheeler would be Lt. General and given command of a Cavalry Corps.
Patrick Cleburne would be a Lt. General (Or Major General, if he goes back into civilian life post war)
Cadmus Wilcox would be either a Major General or Lt. General.
Randall Lee Gibson (given his age and his collegate focus post war) would likely become the organizer and President of the CSMA (located at LSU; had been set up just before the war as military college, with Billy Sherman himself as its President)
Ltc. Scott Shipp either becomes a Brigadier in normal service, or continues teaching at VMI or the new CSMA.
C. C. Sanders (the Colonel of the 24th Georgia) would be a Brigadier
J. C. C. Sanders (in 1862 barely a Colonel) would become a Brigadier or even Major General.
Virgil Cook (Boy soldier from Kentucky who'd become Colonel of Volunteers in U.S. 1st Arkansas Volunteer Regiment in Spanish War) would be a Colonel of volunteers.
Isaac Hardemann (Officer from the 12th Georgia, Doles' Brigade) would be a Colonel of Volunteers

Many figures big and small I have obviously overlooked;
 
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OldReliable1862

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Lets see, if we are going with an alt-1864 Scenario (note: this could also apply to 1862 scenario):
Longstreet would either be a Full General or President.
John B. Gordon would either be Governor of Georgia or Lt. General
S. D. Lee would be Lt. General or even a Full General
Joe Wheeler would be Lt. General and given command of a Cavalry Corps.
Patrick Cleburne would be a Lt. General (Or Major General, if he goes back into civilian life post war)
Cadmus Wilcox would be either a Major General or Lt. General.
Randall Lee Gibson (given his age and his collegate focus post war) would likely become the organizer and President of the CSMA (located at LSU; had been set up just before the war as military college, with Billy Sherman himself as its President)
Ltc. Scott Shipp either becomes a Brigadier in normal service, or continues teaching at VMI or the new CSMA.
C. C. Sanders (the Colonel of the 24th Georgia) would be a Brigadier
J. C. C. Sanders (in 1862 barely a Colonel) would become a Brigadier or even Major General.
Virgil Cook (Boy soldier from Kentucky who'd become Colonel of Volunteers in U.S. 1st Arkansas Volunteer Regiment in Spanish War) would be a Colonel of volunteers.
Isaac Hardemann (Officer from the 12th Georgia, Doles' Brigade) would be a Colonel of Volunteers

Many figures big and small I have obviously overlooked;
Micah Jenkins could become a Major or Lt. General
Clifton R. Breckinridge could become a CSN officer.
Samuel Spencer (boy soldier in the cavalry late in the war, became a railroad tycoon after the war) could become a businessman (I have him eventually becoming a Confederate railroad baron and later President in my scenario).
 
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OldReliable1862

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I'm a strong believer that John C. Breckinridge would become the CSA's second president.
He would definitely be a likely choice. While much of this speculation, it does seem pro- and anti-Davis (and therefore centralisation) factions were beginning to develop. It seems this could be where the CSA's political parties arise.
 
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Desert Kid

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He would definitely be a likely choice. While much of this speculation, it does seem pro- and anti-Davis (and therefore centralisation) factions were beginning to develop. It seems this could be where the CSA's political parties arise.
I think this is exactly where they rise. But since the CSA gains it's independence, this all but shows that Davis has been vindicated to some extent, no matter how hated he is. Breckenridge is comparatively more likable. I've even drawn a map showing how the 1867 election would break down in the CSA.

I made this after reading @JeffBrooks "House of the Proud" which depicts an 1867 election in the CSA.

Purple=Breckinridge/Kemper
Yellow=Beauregard/Toombs

Shattered Nation CS Election 1867.png
 

OldReliable1862

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I think this is exactly where they rise. But since the CSA gains it's independence, this all but shows that Davis has been vindicated to some extent, no matter how hated he is. Breckenridge is comparatively more likable. I've even drawn a map showing how the 1867 election would break down in the CSA.

I made this after reading @JeffBrooks "House of the Proud" which depicts an 1867 election in the CSA.

Purple=Breckinridge/Kemper
Yellow=Beauregard/Toombs

View attachment 299125
Thanks for making this, I hadn't thought enough people were fans of this book series! I always found it odd that Breckinridge - who is running from Virginia - picked Kemper - a Virginian - for his running mate. I'd have expected him to pick a Georgian, like Ben Hill or Gordon.
 

Desert Kid

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Arizona
Thanks for making this, I hadn't thought enough people were fans of this book series! I always found it odd that Breckinridge - who is running from Virginia - picked Kemper - a Virginian - for his running mate. I'd have expected him to pick a Georgian, like Ben Hill or Gordon.
No worries, Kentucky comes “back to the fold” in 1890.
 
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