Forrest's Cavrly Corps uniforms.

[major bill]

Thirty years ago Clyde R. Risley and John R. Elting did this uniform plate for the Company of Military Historians Uniforms in America series as plate #590. Risley did the text and Elting provided the art work.

So in the 30 years since this uniform plate was published has new information been found that might make this uniform plate dated? I respect John Elting and Clyde R. Risely, but new information does get found that can add to our knowledge of what Forrest's men wore. In general, the one page text that came with the color plate gives a brief outline of the unit and to be honest is a bit terse on the uniforms worn. So what do we thing of the gray sack coat worn by the man on the left?

 

[zburkett]

Love the plate but I question the rectangle "CS" buckle. Does any one know if the carbines are right?

 

[major bill]

I do like the print and intend on keeping it in my folder of Confederate uniforms. I try to understand that the study of Civil War uniforms has evolved from the 1960s until today. When this plate was done in 1986 the standard of uniform study had improved from 1960 and continued advancing to what it is today. Some huge work was done on Confederate uniforms during the 1990s and early twentieth century.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

This thread may be of interest:

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/forrests-men-and-their-uniforms.98405/

 

[tullock]

The print shows a set of generic uniforms without any real research. Like all Western units Forrest's troops were generally well supplied with Confederate Depot uniforms, being acquired from the nearest clothing facility. Certainly, captured Federal gear was worn at times, but from my research this clothing was limited to overcoats, hats, underwear and shirts.

 

[Big Sarge]

Forrest's Cavalry Corps was well supplied from the depot at Columbus, MS. Naturally, soldiers experienced heavy wear on uniforms during campaigns and they would procure replacement items as needed. However, when they returned to the Tupelo/Verona/Okolona area they were usually re-equipped.

Major W J Anderson was the quartermaster at the Columbus, MS depot and it was renowned for its production/distribution. Here is a period newspaper report:

MOBILE REGISTER AND ADVERTISER, May 17, 1864, p. 2, c. 2
[From an Occasional Correspondent.]
Columbus, Miss., May 14, 1864
. . . Since I wrote you have received the statement which I promised you from the indefatigable Quartermaster here, Major W. J. Anderson, formerly of your city.
During the past seventeen months he has furnished the army with 51,000 jackets, 50,000 pairs pants, 7,191 coats, 1,859 overcoats, 27,440 shirts, 15,278 pairs drawers, 20,415 hats and caps, 51,277 pairs boots and shoes, 23,220 pounds cooking utensils, 3,000 tents, 3,700 blankets; and within this period he was frequently out of material, and on several occasions operations were necessarily stopped for one to three weeks.
A large portion of the material for jackets, pants and coats was furnished by the Choctaw factory, from which he is now receiving monthly about 18,000 yards of jeans and linsey. Most of the shirting goods was woven by ladies in the country for Sherman & Ramsay of this place, who were under contract to furnish the goods. The hats and caps were manufactured in this place by Hale & Sykes, and the skillets and ovens by Hale & Murdock, and Major Anderson will be able to supply all of these latter articles that may be required in the Department of Alabama and Mississippi and East Louisiana. Messrs. Sherman & Ramsay have until very recently supplied about 6,000 yards shirtings monthly and more than two-thirds of the shoes were manufactured in Lowndes, Oktibbeha, and Choctaw counties, of which from 2,500 to 3,000 pairs are received monthly.
Cooped up as he is, away off here in Northwest Mississippi, Major Anderson has accomplished wonders, and it shows what an energetic business man can and may accomplish, as well as what our country (and even a limited portion of it) can supply. The foregoing figures will no doubt astonish you and your readers, and I give them in order that other parts of the Confederacy and the army may be encouraged and that other officers may be incited to deserve the mead as Major Anderson does, of "well done good and faithful servant." More anon. Rip Van Winkle."

I'll try to dig up some of my photos and illustrations for these uniforms. Also, I have the break downs on what weapons/ammunition that was being issued to some units in Forrest's Cavalry Corps.

 

[zburkett]

That is really outstanding Bill. Can't wait for the pictures. Keep up the good work.

 

[UCVRelics]

I think the patch on his knee says LOT about how things were.

 

[Big Sarge]

After the fall of the Jackson, MS depot, a 5 button shell jacket became the predominant manufactured pattern in Mississippi and was being distributed through the Columbus, MS depot. They were of either an oatmeal/very light tan or a steel gray color wool-cotton jean material with a 5 button front, a single breast pocket, and often a single belt loop. Most of the jackets had a dark blue collar with no cuff trim, but there were jackets with red collar and cuff trim for artillery, jackets with no trim, and an identified jacket issued jacket to Forrest's command that had green trimmed collar and cuffs. Most jackets were issued with depot applied 2 whole wooden buttons. There is one surviving jacket that Mississippi brass I buttons and it was issued in very late 1864.

Note on the uniform colors: Mississippi depots throughout the war issued large quantities of "white" uniforms because they only had vegetable based dies. Vegetable based dies, especially in grays, would wash out in less than a month after issue and turn a very light tan or oatmeal-gray. It hardly mattered to troops in Forrest's Cavalry because they were operating in North Mississippi's red clay that would stain there uniforms a light reddish tan in the field.

This reproduction would have been the most commonly seen jacket.

 

[Big Sarge]

Here are 2 photos of soldiers wearing Columbus, MS jackets. Their trousers seem to be made from the same material. The first soldier is in the 28th Miss Cav and the second is in the 3rd Mo. Inf.

 

[Ken R Knopp]

Here is a link to an article concerning Haversacks and canteens in Forrest's Cavalry:

http://confederatesaddles.com/2008/11/16/a-shortage-of-haversacks-canteens-among-western-cs-cavalry/

Ken R Knopp

 

[Big Sarge]

Here is a link to an article concerning Haversacks and canteens in Forrest's Cavalry:

http://confederatesaddles.com/2008/11/16/a-shortage-of-haversacks-canteens-among-western-cs-cavalry/

Ken R Knopp

Ken, I have been a big fan of your writings for years! I have especially enjoyed reading some of your estimates on Forrest's effective number of troops based upon available saddles and other equipment. BTW, I have an 1864 letter from the ordnance officer of Cleburne's Div complaining about the canteens coming from the Columbus, Ms arsenal. App 60% of what he had received was condemned as unfit for issue.

 

[major bill]

Like I said the uniform plate in post #1is 30 years old and there has been a fair amount of research in those 30 years.

I am fine with uniform plates getting dated. Part of publishing a uniform plate is to inspire additional research on the subject.

 

[Patrick H]

I can't shed any true light on this question. Our local star, Colonel Robert (Black Bob) McCulloch commanded the "Butternut Boys" of Forrest's cavalry. This suggests that their uniforms were dyed with nut stains. The only war time picture I have of Col. McCulloch doesn't show any detail beyond his collar insignia. I will assume he is wearing a cavalry shell jacket in this photo, but who knows for sure? He was buried in his uniform, but we ARE NOT going to dig him up!

 

[Big Sarge]

I apologize for the break in posting. We had some severe flooding here and a couple of tornados. I lost a friend I was deployed with back in OIF III and a daughter of a classmate. Anyway, back to sharing.

Silas Buck joined the 12th Miss Cav in Oct of 1864 and became the colour bearer. This was a unit of the Department of Al, Miss, and East La and some of the time it was part of Forrest's Cavalry Corps. Silas Buck was issued a beige colored jacket from the Columbus, Ms depot that has a green collar and cuff trim. What I find especially intriguing is the Mississippi I buttons which appear to be the original factory applied buttons.

Silas Buck was also issued a hat that was likely made by Hale & Sykes in Columbus, Ms. It is a natural colored wool felt with a flat crown and the right side is pinned.

Finally, we have a photo of Silas Buck with the regimental flag of the 12th Miss Cav, aka 16th Conf Cav. Notice it is a 12 star Department of Al, Mississippi, and East La issue flag. These were manufactured in Mobile.

 

[James N.]

... Silas Buck joined the 12th Miss Cav in Oct of 1864 and became the colour bearer. This was a unit of the Department of Al, Miss, and East La and some of the time it was part of Forrest's Cavalry Corps. Silas Buck was issued a beige colored jacket from the Columbus, Ms depot that has a green collar and cuff trim. What I find especially intriguing is the Mississippi I buttons which appear to be the original factory applied buttons...

I would bet that the green facings were once black that has since faded.

 

[Big Sarge]

I would bet that the green facings were once black that has since faded.

I think Mississippi depots/factories made some of their uniforms with black trim till the fall of Jackson and possibly later. AoM/AoT soldiers were applying black trim to commutation uniform items back as far as Ft Donnelson and it carried over to the depots. However, in very late 1863, Major Anderson at the Columbus, Ms depot was distributing the 5 button shells with dark blue, red, green, or no trim and continued even after he moved the depot to Sema in 1865.

Going back to what you posted, I don't think this green trim was originally black, but it would not surprise me at all for a black trimmed 5 button Columbus, Ms jacket to be found one day!

 

[James N.]

I think Mississippi depots/factories made some of their uniforms with black trim till the fall of Jackson and possibly later. AoM/AoT soldiers were applying black trim to commutation uniform items back as far as Ft Donnelson and it carried over to the depots. However, in very late 1863, Major Anderson at the Columbus, Ms depot was distributing the 5 button shells with dark blue, red, green, or no trim and continued even after he moved the depot to Sema in 1865.

Going back to what you posted, I don't think this green trim was originally black, but it would not surprise me at all for a black trimmed 5 button Columbus, Ms jacket to be found one day!

I seem to remember that in 1861 the State of Mississippi chose black facings (instead of what became Confederate regulation blue) for its infantry, so I would expect black to be the most common. Green was the U.S. regulation distinctive color for members of the Medical Corps for hospital stewards and stretcher bearers but I don't know what if any Mississippians might have worn it by regulation.

 

[major bill]

Green trim was associated with American rilfe regiments.

 

[James N.]

Green trim was associated with American rilfe regiments.

True, but the Mississippi State uniform regulations I remember seeing didn't seem to follow any "logical" course!