Forrest Forrest tidbit

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I found it interesting after the battle of Franklin Forrest requested what was left of the famed 1st Mo brigade be transferred for him to use as replacements, He certainly recognized quality fighting men.

It was denied thay had already been ordered to mobile, and their value there was apparently a valued addition too.
 
I found it interesting after the battle of Franklin Forrest requested what was left of the famed 1st Mo brigade be transferred for him to use as replacements, He certainly recognized quality fighting men.

It was denied thay had already been ordered to mobile, and their value there was apparently a valued addition too.
Well the 2nd Missouri Cavalry (CS) under Black Bob McCulloch the "Missouri Mongols" were already in his command. So he knew that Missouri would fight.
 
Well the 2nd Missouri Cavalry (CS) under Black Bob McCulloch the "Missouri Mongols" were already in his command. So he knew that Missouri would fight.

The 'Forrest Flag' was famous for having only 12 stars, and it was always conjecture as to which of the 13 states claimed by the Confederacy he was leaving out - Missouri or Kentucky. I figure it had to be Kentucky!
 
Also have this thread: https://civilwartalk.com/threads/cockrells-1st-missouri-brigade.130789/

The brigade was decimated at Franklin, losing over 60% out of almost 700 men, so I'm sure Forrest thought he could get what was left of them for mounted service. I'm sure their reputation was widely known in the AoT. They had one of the longest combat records and were probably the best-drilled brigade in the Western Theater. A lot of generals sung their praises. They ended up going to Fort Blakely, were overrun and captured in the final assault but still put up a stout fight there.
 
The 'Forrest Flag' was famous for having only 12 stars, and it was always conjecture as to which of the 13 states claimed by the Confederacy he was leaving out - Missouri or Kentucky. I figure it had to be Kentucky!
Yeah I tend to agree I think it goes back to Donelson/Henry and some of the Brass there and their "lack of pluck" in NBFs eyes.
 
In a conversation with a Major Powhatan about the coming end of the war Forrest was quoted as saying "General Lee's lines at Petersburg will be broken, for Grant is wearing him out; with unlimited resources of men and money, he must ultimately force Lee to leave Virginia or surrender. Lee's army will never leave Virginia; they will not follow him out when the time comes, and that will end the war."

The question is why did Forrest believe the ANV would not leave VA.?
 
It's an interesting observation in a number of ways. Forrest may have been right. Lee's army was worn down and there were large numbers of desertions because of Sherman's operations in Georgia and South Carolina. Mostly what he had with him were die hard Virginians - who were defending Virginia. They were quite literally defending hearth and home. Lee didn't have too many options as to what direction he took when he finally got out of Petersburg - he was pretty well surrounded by then with huge numbers - but if he'd gotten food at Amelia Court House perhaps he could have joined up with Johnston in North Carolina. But it might have been an even smaller army! If Forrest had told his Tennesseans and Mississippians we're finished here, boys, let's go help Lee over there in Virginia - he might have had a real small group following him out. They would have been more concerned about their own homes and families. The stage the war was at when Forrest made these remarks to Maj Powhatan Ellis, one of S D Lee's staff, was a terminal one - and that was why he turned down the suggestion of taking his troops to the Trans-Mississippi or even to Mexico. The Confederacy was done - home was what the average soldier was concerned about by then. When Hood's army mostly dissolved after Nashville, Johnston received only a fraction of his troops.
 
It's an interesting observation in a number of ways. Forrest may have been right. Lee's army was worn down and there were large numbers of desertions because of Sherman's operations in Georgia and South Carolina. Mostly what he had with him were die hard Virginians - who were defending Virginia. They were quite literally defending hearth and home. Lee didn't have too many options as to what direction he took when he finally got out of Petersburg - he was pretty well surrounded by then with huge numbers - but if he'd gotten food at Amelia Court House perhaps he could have joined up with Johnston in North Carolina. But it might have been an even smaller army! If Forrest had told his Tennesseans and Mississippians we're finished here, boys, let's go help Lee over there in Virginia - he might have had a real small group following him out. They would have been more concerned about their own homes and families. The stage the war was at when Forrest made these remarks to Maj Powhatan Ellis, one of S D Lee's staff, was a terminal one - and that was why he turned down the suggestion of taking his troops to the Trans-Mississippi or even to Mexico. The Confederacy was done - home was what the average soldier was concerned about by then. When Hood's army mostly dissolved after Nashville, Johnston received only a fraction of his troops.
I think General Forrest's farewell address to his troops also illustrated his pragmatism:

By an agreement made between Liet. Gen. Taylor, commanding the Department of Alabama, Mississippi, and East Louisiana - and Major-Gen. Canby, commanding United States forces, the troops of this department have been surrendered.

I do not think it proper or necessary at this time to refer to causes which have reduced us to this extremity; nor is it now a matter of material consequence to us how such results were brought about. That we are BEATEN is a self-evident fact, and any further resistance on our part would justly be regarded as the very height of folly and rashness.

The armies of Generals Lee and Johnston having surrendered. You are the last of all the troops of the Confederate States Army east of the Mississippi River to lay down your arms.
N.B. Forrest, Lieut.-General

Headquarters, Forrest's Cavalry Corps

Gainesville, Alabama

May 9, 1865


Forrest's complete farewell address can be read in @CMWinkler's thread:

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/forrests-farewell-address-to-his-troops.98678/
 
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It's an interesting observation in a number of ways. Forrest may have been right. Lee's army was worn down and there were large numbers of desertions because of Sherman's operations in Georgia and South Carolina. Mostly what he had with him were die hard Virginians - who were defending Virginia. They were quite literally defending hearth and home. Lee didn't have too many options as to what direction he took when he finally got out of Petersburg - he was pretty well surrounded by then with huge numbers - but if he'd gotten food at Amelia Court House perhaps he could have joined up with Johnston in North Carolina. But it might have been an even smaller army! If Forrest had told his Tennesseans and Mississippians we're finished here, boys, let's go help Lee over there in Virginia - he might have had a real small group following him out. They would have been more concerned about their own homes and families. The stage the war was at when Forrest made these remarks to Maj Powhatan Ellis, one of S D Lee's staff, was a terminal one - and that was why he turned down the suggestion of taking his troops to the Trans-Mississippi or even to Mexico. The Confederacy was done - home was what the average soldier was concerned about by then. When Hood's army mostly dissolved after Nashville, Johnston received only a fraction of his troops.
I agree, though I wouldn't say the ANV mostly consisted of die hard Virginians. The army consisted of units from every southern state except for Missouri, and troops serving farthest from home generally tended to see the lowest desertion rates in the army and vise versa. Many were deserting at that stage but there was still a core of die hard troops from other states who were willing to fallow Lee wherever he went. To a lot of those who had been there since the beginning the ANV and their unit was their identity.
 
I agree, though I wouldn't say the ANV mostly consisted of die hard Virginians. The army consisted of units from every southern state except for Missouri, and troops serving farthest from home generally tended to see the lowest desertion rates in the army and vise versa. Many were deserting at that stage but there was still a core of die hard troops from other states who were willing to fallow Lee wherever he went. To a lot of those who had been there since the beginning the ANV and their unit was their identity.

Thanks for the correction! I was considering the make-up to be mainly Virginia but you're right - it was the most hard core ideologically, too. What is interesting is Forrest was not. Despite how hard and how well he fought, his dedication to Southern independence, and everything he lost, he was not going over the cliff with the lemmings!
 
I agree, though I wouldn't say the ANV mostly consisted of die hard Virginians. The army consisted of units from every southern state except for Missouri, and troops serving farthest from home generally tended to see the lowest desertion rates in the army and vise versa. Many were deserting at that stage but there was still a core of die hard troops from other states who were willing to fallow Lee wherever he went. To a lot of those who had been there since the beginning the ANV and their unit was their identity.

Yes, die hards like the relative from Mississippi who walked home to Carthage, recuperated, picked up my GGgrandfather's daughter, the last mule and wagon on the place, and was GTT....Gone to Texas. (They returned later on and lived the rest of their lives in Leake Co.) Wonder if he was thinking he might be arrested and planned to zip over to Mexico? :smile:
 
Thanks for the correction! I was considering the make-up to be mainly Virginia but you're right - it was the most hard core ideologically, too. What is interesting is Forrest was not. Despite how hard and how well he fought, his dedication to Southern independence, and everything he lost, he was not going over the cliff with the lemmings!

No lemming, he!
 
I agree, though I wouldn't say the ANV mostly consisted of die hard Virginians. The army consisted of units from every southern state except for Missouri, and troops serving farthest from home generally tended to see the lowest desertion rates in the army and vise versa. Many were deserting at that stage but there was still a core of die hard troops from other states who were willing to fallow Lee wherever he went. To a lot of those who had been there since the beginning the ANV and their unit was their identity.
McNeill though Virginian by birth started the war as an officer in the MSG he and his son went east after Lexington I believe. So though Missouri had no mustered units in the ANV they were represented albeit in a small way by McNeill.
 
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