Fixed ammunition

[Cannonman1]

I have heard that fixed ammunition for light artillery had a paper wrapped powder charge to prevent leakage, protect the charge and help keep its shape.. If this is true, when in the process of loading the round would this paper be removed?? Would it be removed?
Would paper be colored to reflect the round.. shot, case etc...

 

[John Winn]

The powder bags were made of serge, marino wool or flannel; not paper.

 

[Cannonman1]

The powder bags were made of serge, marino wool or flannel; not paper.

Hey John... Should have proof read my post better.. I adjusted my original text to post a more correct question.. Powder bags were wool for sure. My question is whether a paper sleeve was used over that to protect it as it came from the arsenal.

 

[Cannonman1]

Im kind of answering my own question as I do research.. It appears there was a paper cover, color coded for type of ammunition. My question still remains however as to when or if this paper was removed prior to loading into the gun. Did #6 take it off when removing it from the limber or was it removed at the muzzle by #2 or maybe not at all ??
We have created facsimile fixed ammunition with marino wool and found that the powder bag will balloon a bit, creating a larger than bore diameter issue which would not be desirable to say the least.
On a side note.. We did live fire out of our Napoleon with fixed ammunition and wool powder bags.. As #1, I found the odor to be like burning hair or what I remember smelling having. a mole burned off..
Mixing the powder residue, water and burned wool makes for an interesting sense.. Very authentic and memorable.

 

[John Winn]

Hey John... Should have proof read my post better.. I adjusted my original text to post a more correct question.. Powder bags were wool for sure. My question is whether a paper sleeve was used over that to protect it as it came from the arsenal.

I believe that non-rifle rounds were shipped with a paper cover over the fabric and that such would have been removed at the limber but I'll admit I don't have a source to support that right at hand. It's just something I've read and heard over the years I've studied these things; might be wrong.

Calling @redbob @drezac @Rhea Cole

 

[James Brenner]

I will post more later, but I recall paper cylinders were used extensively in the 18th and early 19 th century to not only protect the charges but also to prevent mealed powder (dust) from leaking out of the cartridge. This was before corned powder was developed which allowed uniform powder granulation - what we know now as 1F, 2F, etc. At that time, powder charges contained a mix of different granulations and, during transport, the coarser grained powder would be ground down to dust and could leak out of the flannel cartridge. The paper cylinders contained the charge. At Fort Meigs in 1813, there are accounts of Cushing's and Hezlep's artillery company making such charges.

 

[James Brenner]

Gibbons, page 348, writes, "The cylinder fits over the body of the cartridge and a part of the sabot, while the cap fits over the other end; and when drawn off, which is always done when the cartridge is placed into the piece, leaves the lower end of the cartridge exposed so that the priming wire or fire from the friction tube can reach it without going through any paper. In firing shot, the cap when drawn off, may be placed over the shot to diminish windage."

 

[James Brenner]

No mention of color.

 

[Cannonman1]

Gibbons, page 348, writes, "The cylinder fits over the body of the cartridge and a part of the sabot, while the cap fits over the other end; and when drawn off, which is always done when the cartridge is placed into the piece, leaves the lower end of the cartridge exposed so that the priming wire or fire from the friction tube can reach it without going through any paper. In firing shot, the cap when drawn off, may be placed over the shot to diminish windage."

Thanks !! Great information

 

[Rhea Cole]

To prevent confusion artillery rounds were color coded.

Solid shot left unpainted.

Case shot ( shrapnel ) painted red.

Shell painted black.

Canister painted gray.

The ammunition box in which the ammunition was shipped was also painted the color of the content.

The ammunition chests were packed at depots. The fixed ammunition for smoothbores was packed with the round facing upward. The color clearly indicating the type of round.

Oakum ( hemp fiber ) was packed solidly between the rounds.

Inside the lid is a table of fire that #6 & #7 use to determine the correct fuze setting or paper fuze. There was no need to use colored paper because the round itself was painted in the appropriate color.

Packets of fuzes & friction primers were packed on the ammunition chests. For Union 1.5 friction primers / round. CSA chest were packed with 5 friction primers / round.

During the early period of the war one regiment in the 14th Army Corps had seven distinctly different muskets.

In order to create some order out of the calico of types & calibers, not only were the ammunition chests color coded, but also the wagons of the ordinance train were colored to match.

Behind Thomas' line on December 31, 1862, an ordinance train issued out thousands of rounds to men guided by the colored wagons.

 

[1st Section]

Gibbons, page 348, writes, "The cylinder fits over the body of the cartridge and a part of the sabot, while the cap fits over the other end; and when drawn off, which is always done when the cartridge is placed into the piece, leaves the lower end of the cartridge exposed so that the priming wire or fire from the friction tube can reach it without going through any paper. In firing shot, the cap when drawn off, may be placed over the shot to diminish windage."

That is the only mention of what to do with the caps that I can recall seeing. Our group uses them and for fused rounds we just drop it on the ground when the round is being prepared.

Here is what the fixed rounds look like when they have the caps on them.

 

[redbob]

Well, you learn something new every day; thanks for the great information.

 

[Cannonman1]

Great images.. Thanks for posting that !! Yes you learn something every day.

 

[James Brenner]

Im kind of answering my own question as I do research.. It appears there was a paper cover, color coded for type of ammunition. My question still remains however as to when or if this paper was removed prior to loading into the gun. Did #6 take it off when removing it from the limber or was it removed at the muzzle by #2 or maybe not at all ??
We have created facsimile fixed ammunition with marino wool and found that the powder bag will balloon a bit, creating a larger than bore diameter issue which would not be desirable to say the least.
On a side note.. We did live fire out of our Napoleon with fixed ammunition and wool powder bags.. As #1, I found the odor to be like burning hair or what I remember smelling having. a mole burned off..
Mixing the powder residue, water and burned wool makes for an interesting sense.. Very authentic and memorable.

Muller's Treatise of Artillery (1780) recommends boiling the wool "in size" before making the cartridge bags in order to stiffen the wool and allow it to keep its shape. A Parks Canada report mentions a notebook from 1802 that recommended strengthening the bag by "encircling them with hoops of worsted thread … three hoops for naval service, two hoops for land service, and one hoop for howitzers."

 

[Belfoured]

Muller's Treatise of Artillery (1780) recommends boiling the wool "in size" before making the cartridge bags in order to stiffen the wool and allow it to keep its shape. A Parks Canada report mentions a notebook from 1802 that recommended strengthening the bag by "encircling them with hoops of worsted thread … three hoops for naval service, two hoops for land service, and one hoop for howitzers."

Good info. IIRC paper was used by the Royal Artillery at the time of the AWI to cover the head of the fuze so that the mealed powder used for ignition was protected. It was removed before the shell was put in the howitzer.

As an aside, where did you get the 1780 edition of Muller? I could only get the 1767.

 

[James Brenner]

Good info. IIRC paper was used by the Royal Artillery at the time of the AWI to cover the head of the fuze so that the mealed powder used for ignition was protected. It was removed before the shell was put in the howitzer.

As an aside, where did you get the 1780 edition of Muller? I could only get the 1767.

I bought it from Dixie Gun Works in/about 1983. Museum Restoration Services published it in 1977. I think they're still around and may have copies available.

 

[Cannonman1]

Another question that I will piggyback onto this topic..
What is the correct way to attach the powder bag to the sabot? I have seen demo rounds done a couple ways and I suspect there was a standard way to do this.

 

[James Brenner]

Page 277 of the 1862 Ordnance Manual (available on line) has a very lengthy description on how it's done. In a nutshell, it's tied on.

 

[Belfoured]

I bought it from Dixie Gun Works in/about 1983. Museum Restoration Services published it in 1977. I think they're still around and may have copies available.

Thanks. I'm not sure they have been around for quite a few years but I've gotten Caruana's MRS pamphlets that I didn't already have through MRS itself from a guy who sells a lot of their stuff that he acquired. I'll see if he has the 1780 ed.

 

[Cannonman1]

Page 277 of the 1862 Ordnance Manual (available on line) has a very lengthy description on how it's done. In a nutshell, it's tied on.

Looking at the ordnance manual it describes the process and it also indicates construction of the powder bag was different for blanks vs fixed ammo. It states that the standard way was to cut a rectangle and an end piece where for blanks it was acceptable to cut 2 pieces with rounded ends and sew them together..
Question?? Does anyone know what that end piece looked like or are there any pictures around showing what the regulation round looked like from the sewn end?? By End piece, I am referring to the wool bag and not the paper cap.
Assuming it was likely a circular piece.