- Joined
- Aug 25, 2012
Many Americans probably believe the Hunley was the first submarine. I am not sure we could call the Hunley the first submarine. The Hunley us by far the most famous submarine of the Civil War.
Bushnell’s Turtle during the American Revolution ?Some are not completely sure ie existed.
How do you define the word "submarine" vs a submersible craft? For example one could definitely argue that the first true submarine was the USS Nautilus in the 1950s because it could sail completely submerged. The German Type XXI introduced very late in WW2 could sail completely submerged but required a snorkel.Many Americans probably believe the Hunley was the first submarine. I am not sure we could call the Hunley the first submarine. The Hunley us by far the most famous submarine of the Civil War.
True although per the Wikipedia article the attack of the Turtle against the British warship " Eagle" may never actually occurred. I beat you to mentioning the Turtle by at least a full minute so at least some one else knew if it.Does no one study American History or the American Revolutionary War? David Bushnell and his Turtle were American heroes for Goodness Sake.
Regards
David
You beat me to the Turtle.Bushnell’s Turtle during the American Revolution ?
Wow !
I've never heard that allegation before.
Do you have any sources regarding this claim ?
Thanks.
Arguably the Huntley is not a submarine but a submersible craft. The Huntley did sink a warship but practical submersible craft would not be available until at least 1907 and not draw blood until WW1.The Hunley's claim to fame is the FIRST submarine to sink a warship.
Bushnell’s Turtle during the American Revolution ?
Wow !
I've never heard that allegation before.
Do you have any sources regarding this claim ?
Thanks.
Thanks !he Turtle has been reported to have been more propaganda than fact. I am no expert on the subject.
Thanks !
But can you provide any sources to this allegation ?
The Confederates were aware of the Ictineo. The designer, Monturiol, developed a range of devices for salvage and war. His use of chemical propulsion is very interesting as it might have been used for self-propelled torpedoes. A vessel using similar propulsion would have been built of iron because his wooden hulls could not handle the heat from the chemical reaction. A good book on the subject is "Monturiol's Dream".As mentioned above, a distinction must be made between a diving bell, a submersible, and a submarine... and even that can get hairy.
Regardless, there are lots of claims to the first submarine, almost all of which can not be substantiated.
Bushnell's Turtle for example-
1) was never named Turtle (much like the Fish Boat submersible we call H L Hunley was never a named vessel), someone simply remarked it looked like a turtle and time has attached that as a vessel name, and
2) IF it used screw propellers (a big IF, IMO), then it would have been the first to do so by several decades. No contemporaneous drawings survive, only some later 1800s images.
(I highly suggest reading the only known contemporaneous work on the sub (possibly written by Dr. Benjamin Gale)- file is too large to attach as a PDF
Still, there are much earlier claims to the first submersible/submarine...
e.g., (but far from an exhaustive list)...
- 1850 William Borne (English) -published a treatise and theoretical description of a submersible- no evidence it was constructed
- 1623 Cornelius Drebble (English) may have made a working sub- MOST OFTEN GIVEN CREDIT AS FIRST SUB
- 1636 Marin Mersenne, a French priest and mathematician describes a theoretical submarine design- no evidence it was constructed
- 1771 David Bushnell (American)
- 1798 Robert Fulton’s (American) two attempts w/screw props fro the French and English
- 1832, 1861/2- Brutus de Villeroi (inventer of Alligator)
- 1840-50 Lodner Phillips made several iterations of "submarines"
- 1850-55 attempts by Wilhelm Bauer
- 1855 Seeteufel (Russian)- because he was Russian, we know little about his work
- 1861 McClintock and Watson- vessel we call Pioneer
- 1863 McClintock and Watson- vessel we call Pioneer II or American Diver
- 1863 McClintock and Watson- the "fish boat" we call H. L. Hunley
- 1863 Plonguer (French) first non-human powered sub- compressed air
- 1863-7 Spanish attempts- manual power then converted to 6 cyl engine (3 steam 3 chemically heated) Ictineo I &II originally manually powered- converted in 1867 to combustion engine
EDIT: As mentioned, this is an incomplete list. See @Tut11 post #18 for a more complete list