First Modern War,...

wausaubob

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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In which national existence was at steak.
The Civil War in the United States was the first modern war in which the existence of the belligerents was being contested. The Crimean War had some modern elements, but the four empires that fought were fighting over access to the Mediterranean and other shipping rights.
I believe our tactical experts have also mentioned the expansionist wars of Germany as using modern weapons.

However in the Civil War, the Confederacy had to win to exist, and the United States as a great continental power was going to be serious damaged, if not ruined, it lost Texas ad 10 other states, with more states possibly following the Confederates out of the union later.

I am borrowing from JFC Fuller, Grant and Lee, Indiana University Press 1982. Fuller's original work was written in 1932 but his later forward asserts that he made few changes when the book was re-issued in the 1950's.

It is Fuller's position that the full impact of the rifle was demonstrated in the Civil War. This is because both sides persisted in the struggle until rifled personal firearms were in general use.

In addition to rifles, rifled cannons became widespread, and magazine weapons, i.e. carbines and Henry repeaters, also became common, especially for cavalry units and mounted infantry.

Fuller asserts that both Grant and Lee were slow to recognize the impact of the modern weapons.
While that may be, Lee fought his greatest battle at Chanc., near the wilderness. He was then severely defeated when his troops advance over open ground against both rifles and rifled cannon. His next major battle after that was again fought under cover of the wilderness, in Virginia. That battle nullified the artillery advantage of the United States, but did reward sharpshooting and skirmishing. Lee never advanced over open ground after the battle of the Wilderness. Lee seems to have made his adjustment in 1863, after about 1 years experience in modern warfare.

Grant did not immediately. Although the May 22, 1863 attack on Vicksburg may have been justified by the anticipated difficulties of the siege that would be necessary to force the Confederate garrison of Vicksburg to surrender, by Cold Harbor he should have realized that frontal assaults were not likely to work.

The rifles made it much more difficult for experienced generals to scout the enemies lines, because of the risk of death. If an attack was ordered, experienced infantry could maintain a high rate of fire over a long distance. Conditions by 1864 were different than in 1862. An approaching battle formation not shrouded by gun smoke was likely to incur heavy casualties.

Fuller also asserted that the range of artillery at that time had reached the point at which methods of indirect fire control and employment of descending shot were required and Grant did not urge progress in that regard.

Fuller's other assertion was that rifled weapons eliminated the offensive capability of cavalry. This assertion is probably incorrect. Both Confederates and United States developed methods of combining mobility and fire power. These combinations were best used in the enemy's. However both belligerents were becoming more creative with the use of cavalry by 1864. This especially true of the United States, which had magazine weapons and could afford more horses.

This a preliminary comment, and I invite others to make the necessary corrections and additions.
 
We debated this before - The ACW was not the fist modern war.
The rifle musket was not a big factor and "magazine firearms" was not common.

the Rifle musket did not make scouting any more dangerous, since rifles have been used by light infantry since the late 18th century... and in many armies each light infantry company had some rifles...(if not only rifles) so the skirmish lines with some rifles was common before the civil war.

In short Fuller might have been an expert on armored warfare... but he was no expert on the civil war.
 
I wanted to see how you would respond. Fuller, by his own admission, did not read everything on the Civil War. His opinion was based on the fact that the end of the Civil War clearly foreshadowed the Great War.
What is really happening is that the firearms were improving on both sides. However as late as the surrender at Vicksburg, United States soldiers were instructed to inspect the weapons turned in by the rebels and find the Enfeld rifles and take them as their own.
Especially in the East, United States artillery, and Confederate rifle fire, eventually forced changes.
1. Stationary units had to entrench.
2. Mounted units maximized their fire power by fighting dismounted.
3. It became much easier to disable a Confederate army by threatening to starve such army, and actually cutting its lines of support, than to fight it into submission.
4. The final elements of the blockade, which had not been implemented in 1863, where implemented in 1864 and January 1865.
 
I would agree that it was the first modern war in that railroads, armored steamships, a submarine, the telegraph, aerial reconnaissance, trench warfare, land mines, torpedos (mines) mass production techniques etc. were employed on a large scale.
 
I would agree that it was the first modern war in that railroads, armored steamships, a submarine, the telegraph, aerial reconnaissance, trench warfare, land mines, torpedos (mines) mass production techniques etc. were employed on a large scale.
Some of those were indeed 'new' to the Civil War: railroads, armored steamships and limited aerial reconnaissance. Others were just variations of what had already been used.
The Chinese used explosive traps- landmines- as early as 1232. Using tunnels to undermine enemy fortifications was common in Medieval times. The so-called 'trench warfare' was actually only a form of siege used for centuries: it was only after WW1 that some tried to tie that war's characteristic stalemate of two armies well dug in opposing each other for months on end with the Civil War Siege of Petersburg. The telegraph was first used in military operations in the earlier Crimean War. A form of submarine - David Bushnell's Turtle-was used during the American Revolution where it was the first such craft to attack an enemy vessel in September 1776. Torpedoes- floating kegs of black powder- were used by Americans against British ships in the Battle of Kegs in 1778. Before that time it was common to disrupt shipping by using fire ships- burning vessels carried by currents into the approaching enemy ships.
I find the term 'first modern war' can apply to almost any war in history- if one wants it to. It is simply a matter of what the author wants to emphasize.
 
I think the modern elements existed as of the Crimean War, and other wars in Europe which were smaller and of less duration.
When these modern elements, and especially rifles, rifled artillery and repeating rifles, were used in a war that last 4 years on multiple fronts, the devastation wrought was modern.
The other difficulty that was demonstrated that once national mobilization occurred it was nearly impossible to end the war without total victory by one side.
All the modern elements appeared in one time and place and it scared people, at least for awhile.
 
I would agree that it was the first modern war in that railroads, armored steamships, a submarine, the telegraph, aerial reconnaissance, trench warfare, land mines, torpedos (mines) mass production techniques etc. were employed on a large scale.
RR had been used before
armored steamships had been used before
the telegraph had been used before
Balons had been used before
Trenches have been in use since antiquity.
Land mines had been used before

the sub was one single case and it sank... and mass production was not new.

The Napoleonic wars are a way better option for modern war if looking at the strategic level.
Mass production, mass mobilization true conscription, a world war....

Or wait for the great war for a proper industrialized war... where infantry arms and basic tactics change to how it is today.


And rifles had been in use for almost an century... rifle muskets for 15 years, multi front war?
The 7 year was was a global war with warfare across the globe.

You haven't claimed anything we haven't seen before...and it is still not correct to call the civil war the first modern war.

I have yet to see someone define modern war in a way, that don't make either an earlier war the first modern one... or result in the civil war not being a modern war...

And a war fought with muzzle loaded small arms and artillery and by infantry in close ordered formations is Not modern tactically in any way... that change game during the great war.
 
The logistics of the Civil War were modern.
By the wars end, 1864, Sherman's army was using railroad logistics on a scale not previously seen, because the United States was in 1860 the most advanced railroad nation in the world.
Grant's logistics were based on steamships and railroads. Whether these elements existed before or not, they were decisive in the Civil War.
Even the Prussians paid attention to Sherman's logistics, as well as method of blocking and flanking.
While von Clausewitz was translated to English, the logistics of Sherman's campaign were widely studied. Sherman returned the compliment by describing his methods in terms of how it addressed the problems described by von Clausewitz.
Every war has a modernizing trend and the Civil War was no different.
The war begins with United States soldiers equipped with smoothbores, but by the end of the war the army is buying as many breech loading weapons and repeaters as possible.
Fuller admitted that he had not made an exhaustive study of the Civil War. Rifles did not make that much difference initially. But as the soldiers gained experience, the inability of mass infantry to advance over open ground was revealed.
 
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The logistics of the Civil War were modern.
By the wars end, 1864, Sherman's army was using railroad logistics on a scale not previously seen, because the United States was in 1860 the most advanced railroad nation in the world.
Grant's logistics were based on steamships and railroads. Whether these elements existed before or not, they were decisive in the Civil War.
Even the Prussians paid attention to Sherman's logistics, as well as method of blocking and flanking.
While von Clausewitz was translated to English, the logistics of Sherman's campaign were widely studied. Sherman returned the compliment by describing his methods in terms of how it addressed the problems described by von Clausewitz.
Every war has a modernizing trend and the Civil War was no different.
The war begins with United States soldiers equipped with smoothbores, but by the end of the war the army is buying as many breech loading weapons and repeaters as possible.
Fuller admitted that he had not made an exhaustive study of the Civil War. Rifles did not make that difference initially. But as the soldiers gained experience, the inability of mass infantry to advance over open ground was revealed.
Nicely put; I agree that the scale used during the war is what qualifies it as "modern", it's really just semantics though.
 
Having read a lot of these threads and occasionally posted, I wonder if we are getting wrapped around the axel over the wrong word.

Doesn't EVERY belligerent in ANY conflict fight in the most 'modern' way they can? How do we define 'modern' and isn't that a constantly moving, always progressing, target? Modern means 'most up to date' and that changes daily. If we replace 'modern' with Iron Age / Steel Age / Carbon Age / Industrial / ... I don't know - just something that is a little more empirical than 'modern'...Not that the discussion will go any differently...

Cheers,
USS ALASKA
 
JFC Fuller was a great military brain as the father of mass Tank tactics in WWI and as a former Infantry Officer in South Africa (Boer War) knew the power of the magazine rifle in good hands. However, I don't think that the Civil War was that Modern in terms of the first half of the 20th Century. I need to dig out my copies of his decisive battles to see what he said about Civil War battles.
 
JFC Fuller was a great military brain as the father of mass Tank tactics in WWI and as a former Infantry Officer in South Africa (Boer War) knew the power of the magazine rifle in good hands. However, I don't think that the Civil War was that Modern in terms of the first half of the 20th Century. I need to dig out my copies of his decisive battles to see what he said about Civil War battles.
I think the CWT posters have the better of the argument with respect to impact of rifled weapons.
The Civil War armies went into initially poorly armed and poorly trained. But war is a great teacher, as noted by Churchill. Nothing concentrates a man's thinking quite as much as being shot at.
Especially out west, the soldiers realized that being part of well equipped, efficient unit, increased the odds of surviving the war.
 
While that may be, Lee fought his greatest battle at Chanc., near the wilderness. He was then severely defeated when his troops advance over open ground against both rifles and rifled cannon. His next major battle after that was again fought under cover of the wilderness, in Virginia. That battle nullified the artillery advantage of the United States, but did reward sharpshooting and skirmishing. Lee never advanced over open ground after the battle of the Wilderness. Lee seems to have made his adjustment in 1863, after about 1 years experience in modern warfare.

Gettysburg
 

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